-
this will be old news to many - but to some it might be some of the best news you've had in a very long time.
almost all the full size mounted hum buckers i've ever played generate sympathetic vibrations that drive me insane especially when playing quietly or unamplified.
i just got a crazy fantastic new guitar - for the last two months i've been going mad changing the pickup height and tilting the thing and touching it and wiggling it - and i've been free from crazy-making vibratory noise about thirty percent of the time.
then - thanks to the inter web!!! - i discovered that you can use surgical tubing instead of pickup screws. after changing the pickup screws three times as part of my quest for vibration free notes (and generating three strikingly different tonalities from the damn guitar without solving the vibration problem) - i replaced the screws with rubber tubing (especially cut for fender pickups i believe) from the bay - and IMMEDIATELY i have a totally vibration free guitar.
the amazing thing is really that - even playing acoustically - your sound sort of comes through the damn pickup. you discover this i suppose as soon as you touch or tilt the pickup while the guitar is sounding - and you hear the sound morph drastically in response to the smallest interference with the humbucker.
but - five minutes of playing make it obvious that the guitar is totally healed - it now has a slightly warmer sound even than before - with absolutely no sympathetic vibrations coming from the pickup.
yippitydoodaaaar
-
06-06-2015 01:29 PM
-
do you mean the tube replaces
the springs (if its the screws ... i don't get
how they're mounted)
-
Replaces the springs, but you've got to measure to be pretty close to height as there's not a whole lot of compression adjustment. I see this a lot with solid bodies, Fender types where the screw can be mounted into the body, no PU ring, wood screw and tubing. Tubing can indeed sub a compressed spring. Just be patient when snipping to the right length.
Originally Posted by pingu
David
-
The modern wonder of silicone...
-
Ah...you use the tubing to replace the springs, not the screws. Over time, however, the tubing dries out--whereas the springs go on and on and on... Life is full of trade offs.
-
Groyniad, can you remember what diameter of tubing you ordered ?
-
i got them from eBay - and it was advertised as being for fender single coil pickups
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SINGLE-COI...item3f43adbf7e
10mm long.
6.5mm outer diameter.
2.5mm inner diameter.
they seem to work on a standard size humbucker
its amazing what it does to the guitar. kind of crazy in a way - the difference in sound and feel is very marked indeed.
its really great to have ALL trace of vibration removed instantly - it makes you feel like you can really pull the sound out of the guitar proper, you feel like your making contact more directly with the body of the guitar - its very satisfying (especially after so much irritation). it feels like i'm playing something wooden not something metallic (sort of thing).
but the sound is - i'm pretty damn sure already - slightly dampened. only very slightly - and you could easily think the change in feel was a good one - but its sort of warmer and a bit less defined. through the amp too.
but - as i said - the three sets of springs i tried all made the guitar sound and feel different.
plain as day.
which is kind of crazy isn't it?Last edited by Groyniad; 06-06-2015 at 04:58 PM.
-
I dont mean to shock you but fender used surgical tubing in the 50s IIRC .. they didnt switch until CBS took over..
PS.. I am not a fan but I have never tried it in an hb mounted guitar and I have never had a problem with noisy springs.
-
you lucky person - no noisy springs!
and i'm not shocked - i know its not news to the guitar world in general. just to me - and i inferred from that - perhaps to some others too.
but the plot thickens i'm afraid:
after twenty minutes of testing these are the results
the rubber tubing really does dampen the sound quite a bit (both amped and not)
and there is still quite a lot of noise from the pickup (as soon as i changed the original pickup height various unwelcome noises returned - these changed as i changed the height of the pickup).
so given that the guitar's sound was too much dampened - and the sympathetic vibrations from the pickup were not removed after all (they don't sound the same as the old ones - but they're not welcome) - i removed the rubber tubing and replaced with yet another new set of springs.
these are much higher tension (more coils) than the others i've had on.
the brightness and clarity is restored - and this is very welcome.
so far the nasty metallic vibration-noises have gone. the difference in tone between these very tight springs and the rubber tubing is enormous.
this is part of why archtops with floating pickups can be so attractive. the sound of the guitar is not transmitted via a metallic pickup.
is it just me that thinks its a big deal how much the sound 'comes through' the pickup (such that when you touch and tilt the pickup the sound is modified very strongly).? and the damn springs or tubing play an enormous part in determining the quality of the sound. (these tight springs sound brighter than the other sets of tried - no question).
-
As an alternative, I've used vacuum hose from an engine. It's rubber so compresses quite a bit.
Windscreen washer hose works as well if it is rubber.
-
All the Wilde by Bill Lawrence pickups ship with surgical tubing rather than springs. On a telecaster in the bridge position it's essential to use tubing to help stop feedback and squeal at higher volumes and high gain levels. There probably isn't a lot of other places where it is so necessary.
-
I have done this on various guitars where the rattling was just too strong. Works very fine. The microscopic difference in sound is quickly forgotten, if it exists at all and is more than a placebo effect. Allparts have a tube that fits perfectly. Used it also to fix the right distance for a pickguard where the screw is. But one needs to take always a bit more height, since the silicone is compressed, to achieve the right height.
-
On any pickups I've had problems with I used 2 different diameter springs one inside the other, it also helps stop the pickup wobbling in the surround.
-
para - that is very interesting. the springs i now have on - with many more coils than the originals - are tight to the screw, whereas the originals had a broader diameter.
i can't stress enough how big the impact on the sound/feel of the instrument is - absolutely no psychology here. the rubber tubing made for a much more dampened and woody sound (much too much of a loss in definition for me) and it generated lots of new noises because the whole system was under less pressure. (it may have been the pickup wobbling in the surround)
now the sound has the slightly metallic edge back - but more definition and clarity than ever before - and no sympathetic vibration either. so i'm very happy at last.
it just must be because the pickup-system is now under enough tension to keep things from buzzing and vibrating.
if i ever get problems i will immediately use paras method and i'm sure it will solve them.
great stuff!
-
just to add to this - the tubes I use are not pre-cut, the come from a longer tube and are cut to size. One needs to cut quite a bit longer than actually needed, in order to properly compress the tubes, so that the humbucker is fully 'nailed' in its optimal position. I did a comparison a few years ago, springs versus tubes (cut in that manner), and the difference was negligible. But then again - somehow every guitar is different, so I am not saying this is a 'universal' truth.
-
Just for fun I think you need to rethink the phrase "vibration free guitar" because, it isn't.
-
london-phil - i think that the rubber tubing i put in was too short - so it didn't put the pickup under enough tension to stop vibrations. at the right length it might well work better - but then again it would still dampen the sound of the guitar very noticeably. i'm actually surprised how much i prefer the freshness and brightness of the tone with these high-tension springs (the warmer the better is normally what i think). but this guitar is a laminate and it is already plenty-warm/dark sounding. you could seriously brighten an over-dark sounding instrument or vice versa by swapping tubing for high-tension springs. i'm now thinking i could have fixed problems i've had with old (v. expensive) archtops by changing the god-damn pickup springs!!!!
whiskey02 - of course you're right. we want the good vibrations (man) its just those bad ones we want to lose.
-
Jabberwocky
PM sent earlier in week , no reply?
-
I swapped out the metal springs with silicone tubing this evening on my Epi Broadway fitted with Classic 57 and Classic 57+ pickups. I used 1/4 OD tubing. I measures the length of the compressed springs and added 1/8" to cut the tubing. I then swapped out the springs for the tubing and set the pickups back to the height with the springs.
The results are quite good. My motivation was that I had a sympathetic vibration from the bridge pickup when using drop D tuning. This vibration was quite noticeable to me when playing. The sympathetic vibration is completely gone!
The overall tone is a bit "purer" than with the metal springs. By purer, the Broadway now has bit woodier acoustic tone.
Overall, a nice improvement for about 45 minutes of work.
-
Groyniad - what is this crazy fantastic new guitar of which you speak?
-
A good way to dampen a pickup is to compress a pickup sized piece of closed cell foam rubber between the guitar and the pickup. The foam is nice and springy!
-
I'm curious what brand/model of pickup are you using?
-
Yesterday I got a used AR 371, with terrible buzzes, resonances. I carefully read all material, and regarding the pickup I've ended with this (posted in other thread)
Archtop sympathetic resonance
The resonance from pickup is gone, regarding the dampening effect I did not notice it.
-
Insert here: standard warning about not using tubing or 'sponge' that might out-gas and damage guitar finishes.
-
I've never, in 50 years of playing, working on, and building guitars, had anything audibly vibrate that couldn't be traced to something being loose that could be tightened. I do use surgical tubing to mount pickups because springs are a pain in the a$$ to install unless you buy Stew Mac's overpriced spring compression tool. Foam does work in the bottom of the cavity to keep the pickup level but, as someone said, you have to be careful of your foam as it CAN gas off and mess up a finish.
Reply With Quote
Playoff Hockey
Today, 08:14 AM in Everything Else