Polytone in a Pedal

[add4]

What about the simple one, but simply with a regular and XLR output? I also like having a separate gain control as you've stated.

wouldn't a xlr output be very situational ? i mean, most often you can input both xlr and jacks in PA system.
I could try to see if i can fit a XLR for you if you're interested, or even make a bigger box just for you if it'sa deal breaker , but would it be useful for everyone to have it? i'm not certain.

[Herbie]

wouldn't a xlr output be very situational ? i mean, most often you can input both xlr and jacks in PA system.
I could try to see if i can fit a XLR for you if you're interested, or even make a bigger box just for you if it'sa deal breaker , but would it be useful for everyone to have it? i'm not certain.

Well... isn't it easier and simpler that everybody makes their self the adapter cables they need?

I have been gigging since 1984 and never needed XLR gadgets. If there is a PA in the house, there is a guy with XLR gadgets and if there is no PA, You ain't got anything to put the XLR (if You have a normal amp).

Keep it simple!

[lawson-stone]

wouldn't a xlr output be very situational ? i mean, most often you can input both xlr and jacks in PA system.
I could try to see if i can fit a XLR for you if you're interested, or even make a bigger box just for you if it'sa deal breaker , but would it be useful for everyone to have it? i'm not certain.

You're right, of course. It would not at all be a deal-breaker for me. A pedal that gave me the Polytone pre-amp with good control over the sound would be a winner. I get the problem that the power amp or PA or whatever the pre-amp goes out to has a big impact on the sound, but at least it would start out Polytone-ish.

I've used the pre-amp out from my Baby Brute for recording, and I like it. I'm hopeful that the output from your pedal would be the same or close to it.

[jorgemg1984]

I'be been gigging since 2007 and have found "xlr stations" in quite a few places. This happens when the mixer and the stage are far appart - and I have not always had the previlege of the venue provding a DI. And XLR has less noise. Of course, a passive DI is quite cheap.

[add4]

You're right, of course. It would not at all be a deal-breaker for me. A pedal that gave me the Polytone pre-amp with good control over the sound would be a winner. I get the problem that the power amp or PA or whatever the pre-amp goes out to has a big impact on the sound, but at least it would start out Polytone-ish.

I've used the pre-amp out from my Baby Brute for recording, and I like it. I'm hopeful that the output from your pedal would be the same or close to it.

I'm saying this from memory but I'm 99% sure that all the polytone preamps are the same.
I'm basically doing the barebones without the distortion and reverb modules


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[Cunamara]

I'm saying this from memory but I'm 99% sure that all the polytone preamps are the same.
I'm basically doing the barebones without the distortion and reverb modules

Some have bass-treble, some have bass-mid-treble. But as far as ICs, etc., I have no idea what differences there may be.

[add4]

Some have bass-treble, some have bass-mid-treble. But as far as ICs, etc., I have no idea what differences there may be.

the mid pot too, but i meant: the polytones preamp itself (the board) contains all the options (mid pots, reverb, distortion, ... ) but the modules are just left empty according to the options on this particular model. at least that's how my 86 (i had 83 in mind before, sorry about that) poly is made as you can see on this pic

Shared album - Arnaud De Deck - Google Photos

it's even written on the preamps schematics that they are the same for a lot of versions (mini brute I-IV, mega brute and mega brain in fact), no idea how different the baby brute could be.

Shared album - Arnaud De Deck - Google Photos
Shared album - Arnaud De Deck - Google Photos

but here i basically started from the schematics for mini brute 1 or 3 (which basically means no reverb), and removed the distortion too, and added my gain pot as discussed. i also changed the power supply to make it work in a pedal.

[lawson-stone]

I like the 3 pots design: low, mid, high. The additional gain knob is nice. The Polytone actually has two controls for volume. Isn't one basically gain, the other final volume?

[add4]

The Polytone actually has two controls for volume. Isn't one basically gain, the other final volume?

Mine doesn't? i just have a volume pot, treble, bass, mids and the switch

it's not on the schematics either?

but the classical configuration would be what you described: the gain knob actually controls the amount of amplification, the volume pot is just a 'faucet' to limite the usually huge amounts of volume produced in the amplification process. the real sound of a preamp, or distortion pedal is in fact with the volume all the way up

[lawson-stone]

Mine doesn't? i just have a volume pot, treble, bass, mids and the switch

it's not on the schematics either?

but the classical configuration would be what you described: the gain knob actually controls the amount of amplification, the volume pot is just a 'faucet' to limite the usually huge amounts of volume produced in the amplification process. the real sound of a preamp, or distortion pedal is in fact with the volume all the way up

Here's my MiniBrute II from the 1990's, before the "Sonic Circuit" appeared. In general, keeping the Channel I volume low and the Master high gives you a lot of clean, but going with the Channel I high makes it a little "hot" sounding. So I'm think Channel I Volume is a gain pot and the Master is the final volume?

[add4]

interesting!

that must be an intermediate between the sonic circuit and my version, and my schematic.

mine just has 3 knobs : volume, bass, treble/mids (on the same pot) and the switch. . best sounding amp i've heard Maybe the evans RE200 beats it .. it's more open sounding that's for sure .. not the same application i'd say, ...

[lawson-stone]

interesting!

that must be an intermediate between the sonic circuit and my version, and my schematic.

mine just has 3 knobs : volume, bass, treble/mids (on the same pot) and the switch. . best sounding amp i've heard Maybe the evans RE200 beats it .. it's more open sounding that's for sure .. not the same application i'd say, ...

I have this schematic, which means very little to me except that I see it does have a "Master" volume. This is from 1998.

[add4]

yes that's one of the ones i have. thanks, but theres no gain there only the master volume

[lawson-stone]

yes that's one of the ones i have. thanks, but theres no gain there only the master volume

Well I certainly am not proficient at reading these; I was trying to support your idea of a gain control-my two MiniBrutes II have both a volume for each channel and a Master volume, for whatever use that is.

[add4]

Well I certainly am not proficient at reading these; I was trying to support your idea of a gain control-my two MiniBrutes II have both a volume for each channel and a Master volume, for whatever use that is.

yes of course

just wanted to say that it's probably a late 80s schematic, very similar to the one i have in fact.. it sounds great

[jasonmi3]

Just to say thanks via the forum. Been in touch - and got an immediate reply.

I reached out to Miguel a while back based on the above post from Jorge. My pedal is done and on the way. Can't wait to try it out!


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[yebdox]

Jorge,

Did I read in this thread that you had a clean Ethos pedal for a while? There are no polytones in my circle of friends or city, so I'm never sure if I even need to check one out. I love black face tone and most of my living heroes (Bernstein, van Ruller, Hekselman, Lund, etc all seem stuck on blackface tones. I can see the usefulness of a low pass filter, though, but wouldn't a graphic eq offer something similar to dial out the woofy frequencies from a typical black face tone stack?

I know you have put a lot of work into your tone and I always respect your knowledge base, and wonder if the ethos had some shortcomings for what you are trying to achieve.

I recall that Jack Zucker had some kind of twin reverb pedal preamp a friend made for him that was raving about for awhile, but Jack's always on to something else pretty quickly, so I'm not sure if that was in the ballpark for what you are trying to achieve.

[jorgemg1984]

Hi, yedbox!

I still have a Ethos Clean, that Frank so graciously sent me. Right now my rig is very simple - a preamp pedal and an Atomic Amplifire. I don't use any modelling on the AF, just effects and IRs and the DI. For preamps, I have a Barb EQ, an Ethos and the Polyclone - and I'm expecting the new Mambo Fender pedal anytime soon. At home, I use two small Mambo PA cabs, that are nothing short of amazing, really. At gigs, I just plug at a PA.

I really like all three preamps and they all sound quite different. In the end, when you choose the right IR for each one and properly eq them, they don't sound that different but still enough for me to keep all three. The Polyclone is the simplest, just cut treble, bass at noon (cuts are reduced with a filter on the Amplifire) and add some more mids, just because I love mids - and it's perfect with my Guild archtop. The Barb EQ, as all Fenders, is glorious with some guitars and very hard to eq with others. With the ones that are hard to eq, like the Guild, in the end, I make it so close to the Polytone it doesn't make that much sense using. The Ethos is very different from the others, it's kind of a dark hi-fi smooth tone. I like it but I can get some people don't enjoy it...

All the players you mentioned do use Fenders and if I recall correctly, you also own a few Fender amps? If you're happy then don't worry The thing about Polytones is they are so cheap in the US... an 80s one, the best ones, by the way, can cost 200 or 300 bucks. I love their sound, Lage used one for a while, I believe. Here are some excellent examples of a Polytone sound:

As for the filter question - yes, in theory, you can reduce the bass with a graphic eq, or a parametric eq or the amp's bass knob. In my experience, it's kinda hard to achieve that and not kill some depth of the sound... it's kinda the humbucker dilemma - fat and boomy or thin and clear. Hard to have fat and clear. With a low-cut filter, you can kill the boomy sound and keep the fat, in m experience. Bass is also variable on the venue, at home I always need the low-cut, on the gigs some venues need lots of bass others really need the low-cut filter. Anyway, this is my experience...

Yeah, Jack has had quite some rigs. In the end, I believe he's gone full modelling, AX-8 or Kemper. That's what I would do if I could afford them and if I could carry such big rigs. What I want is quite simple - the best compromise between tone, size and price. So far I'm very happy with this, rig - it's been pretty stable for quite a while, what it's gonna change soon it's the guitars... (PS - the Mambo Fender pedal will be very close to Jack's pedal, except it's solid state)

[add4]

Hi guys,

just wanted to let you know that i should have a viable solution to implement the Low End Control (LEC) switch on the pedal. I'll need to test that to see exactly which values i prefer, but it might look like that picture then
Capture d

I'm planning on giving 3 options on the switch: attenuated low end - leave my low end alone (= switch not engaged) - agressive low end attenuation.

I also would like to add the input/output buffer to make the sound consistent no matter what's before and after it.

Stuffing all of that in such a small box is not going to be easy, i'll try to do that

[jorgemg1984]

A Good Ear? | Tape Op Magazine | Longform candid interviews with music producers and audio engineers covering mixing, mastering, recording and music production.

"Quincy Jones said his best friend is the low-cut filter, 'cause that's what gave him space. That's what gave him a very firm low end — there weren't nearly as many low frequencies going on."

[add4]

Hey guys,

I'm also thinking of doing a more complete version of this:
would you give me some ideas of things you'd be interested in?

so far the possibilities are (i'll most probably not put all of this in a pedal .. there will be choices..)

- Cab sim (analog or digital with USB loading?) on a dedicated output
- reverb
- limiter to add a slight 'tube like' compression
- OD channel?
- don't make me put a delay in there too

other ideas?

[Frank67]

I guess I am envisioning the guy who wants to come to a gig and only bring his guitar and the pedal. Hence, it will need reverb, a xlr out and I personally think it would be nice to kick in a clean boost for solos. Some people are good riding their volume knob. Others are not or hate the high frequency roll-off upon turning down (i don't but many do).

I could definitely live without the od. OD is sooo extremely personal and i bet many people would still bring their own pedal.

Cab sim would also be necessary for a standalone pedal. It would be nice to have it on/off switchable and it would be great to have a high quality one, possibly the ability to load third party ir's.

I would not put any other effect than reverb. People who want more usually want a lot more and then can bring their own pedal or pedalboard or something.

A subtle compression option might be nice, but probably not strictly necessary. If it has 3-band eq, low cut options, a three voice option - that should do it. If there are too many knobs and option the want-it-simple-crowd would be turned off, I guess.

[Frank67]

Jorge,

Did I read in this thread that you had a clean Ethos pedal for a while? There are no polytones in my circle of friends or city, so I'm never sure if I even need to check one out. I love black face tone and most of my living heroes (Bernstein, van Ruller, Hekselman, Lund, etc all seem stuck on blackface tones. I can see the usefulness of a low pass filter, though, but wouldn't a graphic eq offer something similar to dial out the woofy frequencies from a typical black face tone stack?

I had an ethos clean and ended up sending to Jorge. It is not a bad pedal at all and it is unbelievably versatile. When I got it, I expected, big, ballsy, tuby cleans right to the PA. That is not how it sounded to my ears. Not tuby at all, rather synthetic sounding and with a digital feeling compression on it that I did not like. It sounds really smooth though.

I put the Ethos up against my AMT 11A that has real tubes (I put lower gain tubes in it though because it was to heavy-mentally for me before) and thought that it sounded so much better. Hence i did not use the Ethos. The AMT is the same footprint. With the Torpedo it really sounds like big Fender tube amp mic'ed up. Without the Torpedo it still sounds good through the PA but something is lacking relative to a real amp.

[Little Jay]

Hey guys,

I'm also thinking of doing a more complete version of this:
would you give me some ideas of things you'd be interested in?

so far the possibilities are (i'll most probably not put all of this in a pedal .. there will be choices..)

- Cab sim (analog or digital with USB loading?) on a dedicated output
- reverb
- limiter to add a slight 'tube like' compression
- OD channel?
- don't make me put a delay in there too

other ideas?

I would be happy with one good - convincing! - cab sim, analog would be fine if it sounds good (very subjective of course), reverb (spring please!) and a limiter (I love how my AER Alpha compresses).

The danger of cab sim and reverb is, if you keep it simple and choose one good sim and one good verb, that not everyone will like them equally well and will resolve to addtional pedals... But it would be nice to have a cab sim and verb, so the pedal could be a nice back up solution for when your amp stops working (provided there's a house PA).

[jorgemg1984]

Another advantage of XLR out - you need much less gain as XLR inputs are mic level and jack inputs are line level, and it can be hard to reach line level without lots of noise.