Charlie Christian pickups and other CC style pups... pics please!

[omphalopsychos]

Hmm? I am not sure that I have ever played a more dynamic pickup than the Charlie Christian bar pickup. In terms of dynamic range--the difference between the softest and loudest sounds picked up--the CC amplifies strings without compression that I can detect better than any other pickup I have ever experienced.

Nothing else has even come close, FWIW.

Dude you would like the pole piece CC by CC Pickups. I have a standard CC and a pole piece one. Trust me on this. It sounds pretty cool into my 6g2, which I think you can appreciate too.

[omphalopsychos]

I have a pretty serviceable L50 that I so would love to have a P90 or CC pickup in, but it's parallel braced and I fear I'd ruin the guitar if I tried it. A CC in the L50 is one of my little dreams!

Do it. I did mine a year ago and it’s fine. A friend of mine has had his for a few years now with no issues. And if you do it, get the CC from CC Pickups. It’s the only no-compromise authentic cc pickup. No offense to fans of lollar and biltoft but those aren’t cc’s; they’re blade p90s.

[Fred Archtop]

Fred have you ever tried the CC Pickup with the screw poles (like on Metheny’s Slaman)? It’s a unique sound in the CC family of tones. I think the blade is a big part of the pickups sound, the pole CC is like a CC with a bit of P90 bite. A little more treble and a touch more dynamic.

The Slaman/ES-250 and L50/turned ES-150 both have an "ajusted pole pieces" PU from CC PU UK. It's ajusted to #12-54 gauge, but not ajustable/screwable as in the Slaman's Metheny model. I must say it sounds really great but my original ES-150 from 1938 has this very unique sound that you only have with prewar CC/ES-150s. Even my L50/turned ES-150 sounds pretty different. I will paraphrase Mr. Greentone, for me, nothing comes close enough to the real prewar ES-150. It's a matter of taste but I think you can easily hear the uniqueness of this sound in my video.

You should buy another guitar, this time with the poles.

Great! Could you write down a letter where you will explain this to my wife?

[lawson-stone]

Do it. I did mine a year ago and it’s fine. A friend of mine has had his for a few years now with no issues. And if you do it, get the CC from CC Pickups. It’s the only no-compromise authentic cc pickup. No offense to fans of lollar and biltoft but those aren’t cc’s; they’re blade p90s.

Parallel braced L50? Did you have to cut the braces?

[omphalopsychos]

Parallel braced L50? Did you have to cut the braces?

lol I think you asked me this last year. Answer is yes. We survived.

[omphalopsychos]

The Slaman/ES-250 and L50/turned ES-150 both have an "ajusted pole pieces" PU from CC PU UK. It's ajusted to #12-54 gauge, but not ajustable/screwable as in the Slaman's Metheny model. I must say it sounds really great but my original ES-150 from 1938 has this very unique sound that you only have with prewar CC/ES-150s. Even my L50/turned ES-150 sounds pretty different. I will paraphrase Mr. Greentone, for me, nothing comes close enough to the real prewar ES-150. It's a matter of taste but I think you can easily hear the uniqueness of this sound in my video.


Great! Could you write down a letter where you will explain this to my wife?

I agree, the blade is essential to the authentic tone, I was merely saying that the pole piece version has something unique and is a nice new variation. I think the blade version has the real midrange voice that characterizes the cc sound. The pole piece (at least with the screws) sounds more modern, less midrange and clearer. It could be a function of the guitars they’re in (the blade is in an L50 and the pole is in a Slaman Sister) but to me the pole one does have more dynamic range, which gives these pickups the stringiness we all like. I’m not asserting that one is better than the other, but for my uses I like the pole a bit more. To revise what I said about p90, I actually think this pickup sounds halfway between a CC and a dynasonic. I’ve never played the “adjusted blade” version. Too bad we’re so distant, would love to compare and jam on some tunes.

[lawson-stone]

lol I think you asked me this last year. Answer is yes. We survived.

Old age. It's hard on the memory! The only CC pickup I'm interested in is the one made in the UK, which is the one I think you mentioned. If I'm going to hack into a vintage guitar I'm not putting a "almost exactly..." pickup in it. I want the closest to the real thing I can find. I don't recall what you did with the bracing--did you reinforce it? Just leave it cut? (Forgive the encroaching of senility on my recollections).

[omphalopsychos]

Funny enough, I forget which is which. But they both sound good, so I don't care. The Slaman's playability and acoustic tone are superior to the Gibson, so I play that one more.

[omphalopsychos]

Old age. It's hard on the memory! The only CC pickup I'm interested in is the one made in the UK, which is the one I think you mentioned. If I'm going to hack into a vintage guitar I'm not putting a "almost exactly..." pickup in it. I want the closest to the real thing I can find. I don't recall what you did with the bracing--did you reinforce it? Just leave it cut? (Forgive the encroaching of senility on my recollections).

Yep, just cut the braces with no reinforcement. The top hasn't moved an inch.

I think you should go for it. After working on all those Jimmy Ramey solos you’ve earned having his early tone.

[lawson-stone]

Yep, just cut the braces with no reinforcement. The top hasn't moved an inch.

I think you should go for it. After working on all those Jimmy Ramey solos you’ve earned having his early tone.

Man you totally read my mind. Early Raney and Rene Thomas channeling Raney... what a great sound! It would be a hoot to play those Raney solos (and I have kept them ALL up to date!) through the CC loaded L50.

Might have to order the pickup and then start staring at the guitar and pickup to build up the courage to do it.

[Greentone]

Lawson,

Your playing was just made for an ES-150. Heck, they WERE L-50s with a CC attached.

Big thumbs up, here.

[lawson-stone]

Lawson,

Your playing was just made for an ES-150. Heck, they WERE L-50s with a CC attached.

Big thumbs up, here.

Well it looks like I need to start saving my shekels for one of those hard core UK made CC pickups.

Am I wrong that, basically, this involves, using an accurately drawn template, CAREFULLY cutting a hole in the top, drilling 3 holes, slipping the pickup through the hole, aligning the 3 holes, and fastening the 3 adjustment screws, as well as wiring the pots and output jack? I actually think with a razor hand saw I can do the pickup opening. I've done pots and jacks before, so that would not be especially challenging. I just get scared thinking about that really big old pickup unit and its physical mounting.

[sgosnell]

The braces are more for tone than for strength. Cutting them near the neck won't weaken the top enough to be a problem. I have an Epiphone (laminate, not solid) archtop that has no braces at all. It was built in 1953, and AFAICT nothing has changed, except for the wood getting harder over the decades. Not a great acoustic tone, but it's pretty loud. Braces would probably help the tone, but lower the volume. It's fine as it is.

[omphalopsychos]

Well it looks like I need to start saving my shekels for one of those hard core UK made CC pickups.

Am I wrong that, basically, this involves, using an accurately drawn template, CAREFULLY cutting a hole in the top, drilling 3 holes, slipping the pickup through the hole, aligning the 3 holes, and fastening the 3 adjustment screws, as well as wiring the pots and output jack? I actually think with a razor hand saw I can do the pickup opening. I've done pots and jacks before, so that would not be especially challenging. I just get scared thinking about that really big old pickup unit and its physical mounting.

I would take it to a qualified luthier. Your process sounds right but I wouldn’t gamble with this kind of surgery.

[Dioxic]

Thanks all for your comments and appraisals. Some folks here know that I am mad about CC PU, and I always take the occasion to put them forward. I agree with you that the L50 and ES-175 CC are in a different category, sound-wise, than the others. To me, they are more adapted to a "modern post-bop style" and, indeed, I use them in this type of musical situation. But maybe this is just me...Now I must say that my ES-150 is my "trip to a desert island" guitar, if ever I could find an amp on this island.

That's a mix of them. The ES-150 has an original (i.e. 1938) CC PU. The ES-175 CC has the PU that Gibson reissued for a brief period (1978-1980). It's conception is very different from the original, also tone-wise. The DS 250 and Gibson L50 were born in Daniel Slaman's guitar workshop. They are equipped with an ES-250 version (i.e. individual but non adjustable pole pieces). The ES-300 and L5C are equipped with Pete Biltoft special PU that I ordered to him. I once had a Lollar on my ES-300. Very good mic' but closer to a P90 as compared to the one from P. Biltoft. Therefore I switched for Pete's version.

Cheers.

Fred--how is the ES-175 CC PU different from the original pickups in terms of conception? I have an ES-175 CC, and was under the impression that the pickups were more or less vintage-spec, no?

[Fred Archtop]

I read somewhere that metal alloy was different. Also, they used different wire gauge and round numbers. Last detail, they notched the bar under the B string in the reissue version which was never the case in the prewar version.

Compared to the original ES-150, the late ´70s, early ‘80s ES-175CC is a whole different thing.

[wintermoon]

I read somewhere that metal alloy was different. Also, they used different wire gauge and round numbers. Last detail, they notched the bar under the B string in the reissue version which was never the case in the prewar version.

Compared to the original ES-150, the late ´70s, early ‘80s ES-175CC is a whole different thing.

There were some prewar 150 pickups w/B string notches, due to the B being too "hot"

[Greentone]

Right. I think '36/7 are the only un-notched models.

[Fred Archtop]

Hmmm, I know it’s a matter of debate. My ES-150 is from 1938 and unnotched. Tried a 1940 a few months ago, unnotched too.

I discussed this point with René Duchaussoir years ago and he said that he had no evidence that prewar ES-150s were delivered B-string notched.

Musicians did this for sure, but Gibson workshop is doubtful.

[wintermoon]

[Madansi]

Anyone here have a review on how the single sized CC rail pickup sounds ?
I had a crazy idea... Asking my favorite boutique pickup builder for a jazz version of the Seymour Duncan P-rails... Consists in a jazz voiced Alnico 3 P90 + a CC rail to fit in a humbucker route ! But not sure if the CC sounds like a real CC pickup in a single rail size.

[icr]

I've got this set aside for when the right husk comes along

If I had that, I'd consider a call to Mr Slaman to discuss the possibility of creating something very special for it!

[zcostilla]

Anyone here have a review on how the single sized CC rail pickup sounds ?
I had a crazy idea... Asking my favorite boutique pickup builder for a jazz version of the Seymour Duncan P-rails... Consists in a jazz voiced Alnico 3 P90 + a CC rail to fit in a humbucker route ! But not sure if the CC sounds like a real CC pickup in a single rail size.

I bet Pete at Vintage Vibe Guitars would be willing to design one with you. He’s not afraid to try anything.

[mr. beaumont]

There was a request on another thread for pics of CC equipped guitars. There must be other fans of CC pups here. Got pictures of yours?

Or, what guitar would you LIKE to put a CC pup in?

I'm still happy with the one I got a couple years ago from Pete Biltoft (Alnico II magnets). I slapped it into a Guild X150 and it's been a simple, dependable gig box with a great sound ever since. The original pickup was OK, but I wanted a fatter sound for Swing gigs. To my ear, Pete's bar pups sound a lot like the old DeArmond 'Guitar Mike'. I also like that the whole rig was under $1500 and is new enough to be replaceable if damaged or stolen

Attachment 20326

Awesome. I'd gig that any time, any place, and I know I'd be perfectly happy with the sound/feel.

Guilds are so underrated.

[rhl-ferndale]

Attachment 72165

I first put Pete Biltoft CC rails in a Tele—lovely spalted maple, but ultimately too heavy for me.

This is how I use the same pickups now, in a hollow walnut Forshage Orion.