The Regular Gibson ES-175

[Greentone]

Whoa...are those nibs on a 175? Gibson never used that style of fretwork on a 175 before. Hmm?

[vinnyv1k]

Those skinny frets are the same ones on my 59 175.

[Max405]

Whoa...are those nibs on a 175? Gibson never used that style of fretwork on a 175 before. Hmm?

Greentone, No, on my L7C. I think its a 2006. I cant keep track anymore.

Those skinny frets are the same ones on my 59 175.

And you don't like them? I'm surprised. They are precise and fast. I am almost positive they were the same on my 97 175 and my Dads 53 too.

[vinnyv1k]

Joe, I personally don't. Good for chords but sustain killers for lead. Too thin for a proper crown. It is a flatop guitar fret.
Look at video's of all the Jazz greats. Wes, Herb, Joe, Barney......they all used jumbo/mediums or at least med/med. Everyone is different. I find just the opposite. Skinny frets slow my speed and are tone killers for the way I play. They do gIve a tone that has a more defined clarity but I go for a real dark tone. Different strokes buddy :-)

[Archie]

Greentone, No, on my L7C. I think its a 2006. I cant keep track anymore.



And you don't like them? I'm surprised. They are precise and fast. I am almost positive they were the same on my 97 175 and my Dads 53 too.

Yeh this is where i get miffed.

I dont like skinny frets, to me they don't feel right and they almost make it harder to play/fret. I like mine quite big with a flatfish top, especially on acoustic guitars. Thats probably why i've always like the Guild F55's etc.

What is the main difference between fat and low v:s skinny

[vinnyv1k]

I find skinny frets require more finger pressure as their is less string to fret contact. Also even a pleked fret does not have a proper crown. A properly crowned fret makes a world of difference in tone and playability. Skinny vs jumbo is just a personal choice. No right or wrong. Joe likes to play like Johnny Smith and I am heavily influenced by Grant Green's style hence the different choice in fret choice. Joe is a wonderful player so the skinny frets work very well for him. For me the fatter the fret the better but only medium height. High height will slow me down also.

[Max405]

Archie- I am struggling with this too.
This week, I've been working on Joe Pass, Night and Day.
So far I've worked on that song with the L5, L7, and the Heritage JS. That tune requires a lot of everything, chording, scale runs and a little stretching at frets 2-5.
The Heritage JS and the L5 have the same frets pretty much. The Heritage has slightly shallower neck. Learning this song on both guitars has been a pleasure. The slight nod goes to the Heritage. The neck on Heritage has to be played to be believed.
Last night I went to the L7c. That Guitar defies all logic. It was by far the easiest to play for me. Maybe its my little girly hands? Maybe the small frets force me to be more accurate? I think more likely, the smaller the fret the lower the perceived action. Its just natural for me.
I remember buying a Parker Fly several years back. I hated it. Seriously. The single worst Guitar for me. The High, Jumbo frets made me play terribly bad. Even though the action was low, it didn't feel that way to me. Maybe my brain calculates from bottom of string to top of fretboard? That might be why, I love the L7c so much.
Circling back to the original topic of this post:
This is what makes me insist that the Guitar that I grew up playing, the 1953 es175d had the small frets.

[rickshapiro]

Vin, my 97 had frets that were very close to what I remember the 1953 had. My 165 has the same frets as my L5, I just checked.

Joe,that 97 still has those frets. LOL.

[Max405]

YES! I am not loosing it! Thanks Rick.
JD

[vinnyv1k]

Joe, your black L5 is what I consider perfect width & height for frets but that is just me. Never met anyone from Jersey that was girlie. Actually quite the opposite. I learned pretty early in life not to mess with anyone from Jersey :-)

[Dennis D]

I recently acquired a '50's L-7c w/ those ' skinny frets '.....I use D'Addario Chromes 12/52's on my other three - -a 30's L-7, an L-5 '30's reissue, and an '80's L-4. All similar Gibson neck profiles w/ orig. frets. My luthier 'nailed' the action and setup on all three, so they're all the same effort to play, meaning very little. I can punch any of them if I want and they'll respond.
But when I got this skinny-fret L-7 back w/ the 12/52's the first time, it didn't sound right - -maybe too bright and real easy to buzz. After a while I just had had enough of picking so lightly.
So we kicked up the gauge to Chromes' next size - -13/56, and now it's where it ought to have been. I
can only say it's the frets.

My experience, FWIW.

Dennis

[vinnyv1k]

Well sounds to me that Gibson used different type frets through the recent years on their 175's. Some have skinny and some have mediums. Learn something new everyday on JGF. :-)

[Max405]

I recently acquired a '50's L-7c w/ those ' skinny frets '.....I use D'Addario Chromes 12/52's on my other three - -a 30's L-7, an L-5 '30's reissue, and an '80's L-4. All similar Gibson neck profiles w/ orig. frets. My luthier 'nailed' the action and setup on all three, so they're all the same effort to play, meaning very little. I can punch any of them if I want and they'll respond.
But when I got this skinny-fret L-7 back w/ the 12/52's the first time, it didn't sound right - -maybe too bright and real easy to buzz. After a while I just had had enough of picking so lightly.
So we kicked up the gauge to Chromes' next size - -13/56, and now it's where it ought to have been. I
can only say it's the frets.

My experience, FWIW.

Dennis

Dennis,
I am using TI-12 Jazz swings on my L7c. That's a good match for the my Guitar. Also I have a pretty light touch. No buzz at all, and I like low action.

Well sounds to me that Gibson used different type frets through the recent years on their 175's. Some have skinny and some have mediums. Learn something new everyday on JGF. :-)

Sounds that way to me too. Im not sure why. They do odd things. When I bought my 2012 LesPaul Classic, the same guitar was available in 2 different neck profiles. Perhaps they made the 175's to order? Maybe that's the beauty and the curse of handmade instruments..

Thanks Guys, Joe D.

[Dennis D]

Dennis,
I am using TI-12 Jazz swings on my L7c. That's a good match for the my Guitar. Also I have a pretty light touch. No buzz at all, and I like low action.

Thanks Guys, Joe D.

I considered those - but they're even lighter than the Chromes 12/52's, so I was pretty sure they wouldn't help. The next TI set is the 113's, and those 5-4-& 3 strings were also lighter than the 5-4-3 strings on the 12/52 Chromes, so I ruled those out too. Is this correct ?

Thx Joe

Dennis

[Max405]

I think you are right Dennis. But they are polished better than the chromes. More "Flat wound" if you will.
I hope you get to love your L7c as much as I do mine.
Joe D.

[Dennis D]

I think you are right Dennis. But they are polished better than the chromes. More "Flat wound" if you will.
I hope you get to love your L7c as much as I do mine.
Joe D.

Joe
It was the L-7 acquisition story of a decade. ( for me anyway )...
It's a 1954 Natural, basically unplayed, part of a collection ( the dealer said ) of the original store owner's, included with the sale of the business to the present owners..
Went down there and once my buddy and I saw it - -we basically agreed that I'd better either buy it or stop looking, 'cause I'd never find another as clean. So after a sleepless night or two, the dealer and I agreed etc, and that was that.

Now that having been said, ( and yes I really like it, and yes it's a keeper, and yes it's gorgeous ), that other L-7 I own - -the '36 with those picture frame inlays, is my all-time favorite guitar. Period. I even found and copied a photo of Les Paul playing one at a studio gig, ( w/Tommy Overton ? ) and that's around here too. I pick it up and all's well with the world. So if you like L-7's, find one that 30's vintage, 'cause they are absolute magic !!

Dennis

[vinnyv1k]

Dennis try the Pyramid hex core nickel flats. Gauges like Chromes but way better quality. German made. Chromes are like sandpaper on your frets.

[Max405]

Joe
It was the L-7 acquisition story of a decade. ( for me anyway )...
It's a 1954 Natural, basically unplayed, part of a collection ( the dealer said ) of the original store owner's, included with the sale of the business to the present owners..
Went down there and once my buddy and I saw it - -we basically agreed that I'd better either buy it or stop looking, 'cause I'd never find another as clean. So after a sleepless night or two, the dealer and I agreed etc, and that was that.

Now that having been said, ( and yes I really like it, and yes it's a keeper, and yes it's gorgeous ), that other L-7 I own - -the '36 with those picture frame inlays, is my all-time favorite guitar. Period. I even found and copied a photo of Les Paul playing one at a studio gig, ( w/Tommy Overton ? ) and that's around here too. I pick it up and all's well with the world. So if you like L-7's, find one that 30's vintage, 'cause they are absolute magic !!

Dennis

I will do that. Dennis you are bad for me. I'm supposed to be done with wheelin and dealin! Thanks buddy.

Dennis try the Pyramid hex core nickel flats. Gauges like Chromes but way better quality. German made. Chromes are like sandpaper on your frets.

Vinny, you are a wealth knowledge bro. Always willing to share.

[nodog]

Hi
Between these two guitars which im looking at which do you think would be the better one to buy one is on ebay and the other through a dealer in germany
1.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1985...-/301607183446
and
2. http://www.gregsguitars.de/en/produc...igh_gloss.html
i have no clue as to the merits or otherwise of these models of gibson but i like the sound of them. Also one has two pickups and one does not . They are similar in price.
Best regards.

[rpguitar]

Those are pretty different, actually. The 2010 looks to be one of the VOS models, built like the late 50s classic era with light/thin woods, aged parts, and a bright sound with plenty of acoustic nature. Very nice! But, the 1985 has Tim Shaw pups - awesome, rich humbuckers with lots of chime - mahogany back and sides vs. the normal maple, and a really unique figured top. Tough call. I think the '85 would get my vote. But it's not at all a slam dunk. It comes down to personal preference.

[Dennis D]

Dennis try the Pyramid hex core nickel flats. Gauges like Chromes but way better quality. German made. Chromes are like sandpaper on your frets.

Thanks Vinny, I may have to. I tried to find a flatwound set that had a smaller that 56 low e ....
I found my notes from last year when I decided on the Chromes - -are you referring to the Pyramid Gold GF 613 ? Those are 13 /52 w/ wound 3d's. That size would sure work.

Thanks

[vinnyv1k]

H412 13-52. H413 13-56. H14 12-52. Go to Strings and Beyond for full description of guages. Pyramid makes 2 types of flat wounds. Round core and hex core but both have a nickel wrap unlike the stainless Chromes.

[Dennis D]

[QUOTE=Joe DeNisco;531168]I will do that. Dennis you are bad for me. I'm supposed to be done with wheelin and dealin! Thanks buddy.


Joe
Those '30's L-7's are out there, and not crazy ( L-5 ) money. Aside from the usual inspection items, the only uh-oh surprise you don't want is separation of the bracing, because the next event is bad - -a collapse........the tops ( x-braced ) may settle and look less arched, but if everything inside is still glued together, it'll be fine......the way you tell is you or your luthier goes in there with a light and mirror and checks all the joinery.......some bridge re-work - usually adding to the original to compensate for the settling - is a sign to be aware of possible internal issues.

But if you finally find one and set it out next you your other guitars, L-7's included, don't be surprised if people walk past the others to look at the one with those inlays !!!



Good luck finding one Joe -- you won't be sorry !

Dennis

[Hammertone]

Those '30's L-7's are out there, and not crazy ( L-5 ) money. Aside from the usual inspection items, the only uh-oh surprise you don't want is separation of the bracing, because the next event is bad - -a collapse........the tops ( x-braced ) may settle and look less arched, but if everything inside is still glued together, it'll be fine......the way you tell is you or your luthier goes in there with a light and mirror and checks all the joinery.......some bridge re-work - usually adding to the original to compensate for the settling - is a sign to be aware of possible internal issues. ….

Just to make it a bit more complicated:
Advanced L-5 / L-7 / L10 / L-12 guitars (short scale, x-bracing) were built with a different carve than later instruments (long scale, parallel bracing). The top plate has a "double-hump" design, fairly flat across the top, as opposed to the more highly domed "single hump" carve of the later design. Sometimes this is interpreted as symptomatic of a sinking top, even when that is not the case.

The design changeover took place in the late 1930s - my guess is that, at the time, Gibson was responding to competitive pressure from Epiphone, whose cometitive Triumph / Broadway / Deluxe archtops (long scale, parallel braced, and a bit bigger) were louder and punchier sounding.

[Dennis D]

Dennis try the Pyramid hex core nickel flats. Gauges like Chromes but way better quality. German made. Chromes are like sandpaper on your frets.

...Thanks again Vinny.