Fender '68 Custom Deluxe Reverb - Has anyone checked it out yet?

[KirkP]

That's not a Custom Deluxe schematic, since the schematic has 6L6 tubes and 35RMS test spec.

Try this
https://robrobinette.com/Fender_Deluxe_Models.htm

[Little Jay]

Good one Kirkp! Didn't even see that!

Whattayaknow, Fender just sent the wrong schematic! The one on Rob Robinette's page looks correct and has a 1k5 NFB resistor, which explains the earlier breakup (and more hiss and hum)!

(Kai, looks like Fender sent you the 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb schematic.)

[Little Jay]

That's not a Custom Deluxe schematic, since the schematic has 6L6 tubes and 35RMS test spec.

Try this
https://robrobinette.com/Fender_Deluxe_Models.htm

That's a great website by the way!

Amazing how Fender can market a whole new amp by changing just one resistor, one tone cap and adding a jumper for reverb and vibrato (tremolo actually) on both channels.

By the way, I did the exact thing on my Twin Reverb, except I left the NFB original and changed the tonestack of the normal channel completely to bassman-specs (two .022uf caps and a 56k slope resistor. It's very nice to have two differently voiced channels with reverb on both. The 'bassman channel' works great with P90 pickups, while I like the original channel better for my humbucker guitars.

I think I would change the NFB resistor to 820R if I had a 68 Custom; it reduces hiss, gives more headroom and adds a little 'punch'.

[Gitfiddler]

It is threads such as this one that has convinced me to stay away from all of Fender's 'reissue' amps. Sure, as a long time Fender amp fan (since the early '60's), I was tempted to try them out. Yes, they can sound good and various volume levels. They can even sound great. But (and you knew there was a big old butt coming!) their build quality, repair difficulty and querky 'factory custom mods' such as the negative feedback feature, low headroom, etc., all conspire against a potentially great amp. It's the same thing Fender did with the Blues Jr. series. They took a great concept for a small blues amp, but due to factory-built limitations, caused many owners to have their amps modded ad nauseum, thus eliminating any long term value, and worse, not truly getting the best amp for the investment.

Ask any qualified amp tech about Fender's reissue amps. Then stand back as they rail against the pc board, poor soldering joints, low quality pots, caps, etc. Ask them how do they compare working on them vs. the former point-to-point, hand wired Fenders from the '60's through the '80's...and even a few limited edition, Fender Custom Shop amps of today? Silverface amps and Rivera-era amps are still a relative bargain, retain their value, produce great tone and knock all reissues out of the ball park. These are the ones to buy in my view. I've sold all of my 'new' Fender amps with the exception of my highly modded Blues Jr. And that's only because of the heavy investment of unrecoverable cash to get it to sound decent...not great, just decent. My current Fender amps are either Silverface or Rivera-era blackface amps. Why? Because they were a bargain and sound fantastic. I don't have the funds or a need for an expensive Fender Brown or Blackface amp. The low entry fee for the SF and Rivera-era amps was too good to pass up. They are gradually starting to increase in value, however.

Sorry for the rant, but there are some great players and people on this forum. I just wanted to pass along the good, bad and ugly about Fender's current amp lineup.

Here is a Fender amp technician's comments on their reissue amps:
Fender Re-Issue Blackface Amplifiers | Vintage Fender Amp Repair

Vintage Fender Amp Repair

[docbop]

That's a great website by the way!

Amazing how Fender can market a whole new amp by changing just one resistor, one tone cap and adding a jumper for reverb and vibrato (tremolo actually) on both channels.

By the way, I did the exact thing on my Twin Reverb, except I left the NFB original and changed the tonestack of the normal channel completely to bassman-specs (two .022uf caps and a 56k slope resistor. It's very nice to have two differently voiced channels with reverb on both. The 'bassman channel' works great with P90 pickups, while I like the original channel better for my humbucker guitars.

I think I would change the NFB resistor to 820R if I had a 68 Custom; it reduces hiss, gives more headroom and adds a little 'punch'.

Back when Paul Rivera was modding Fender's in his garage I had one and it was best amp I ever had. He would remove one of the input jack and put a pot in there like a varitone that you could dial in multiple amp tones, but the treble and bass still worked for tweaking. Seem like a would be possible to have a set of different caps on a selector to dial in a tone stack du jour.

[KirkP]

Back when Paul Rivera was modding Fender's in his garage I had one and it was best amp I ever had. He would remove one of the input jack and put a pot in there like a varitone that you could dial in multiple amp tones, but the treble and bass still worked for tweaking. Seem like a would be possible to have a set of different caps on a selector to dial in a tone stack du jour.

Perhaps Fender's "custom" versions should have had some switches or pots to vary negative feedback and tone stack parameters. The only problem with this approach is that the more parameters you allow the user to tweak, the more likely it is they'll dial in "bad" tones and they may find it difficult to remember the settings of some tone they liked. Then they'll tell others it's hard to dial in or sounds terrible!

[docbop]

Perhaps Fender's "custom" versions should have had some switches or pots to vary negative feedback and tone stack parameters. The only problem with this approach is that the more parameters you allow the user to tweak, the more likely it is they'll dial in "bad" tones and they may find it difficult to remember the settings of some tone they liked. Then they'll tell others it's hard to dial in or sounds terrible!

Like a Mesa Boogie "gets any sound, except the one you want". I bought Joe Elliot's Mark II with every option Boogie had available and it was nice, but a slight tweak and could take forever to dial back in, plus the amp weighted a ton in its anvil case. I had it about fifteen years and sold it back to Joe Elliot.

I wasn't that complex as it sounds, but notice once Paul went to Fender and later his own company he didn't to any of that any more. I love to have one of those red knob Fender Concert amps from when Paul was at Fender. That's the amp Lage Lund seems to keep and as he sells off other gear.

[stuehrenberg]

I got it from Fender directly:

The 68 Custom has ½ the feedback signal of the original Vibrolux because there’s a 47 ohm resistor at R53 instead of a 100 ohm resistor in series with the 820 ohm resistor at R64.

[docbop]

I got it from Fender directly:

The 68 Custom has ½ the feedback signal of the original Vibrolux because there’s a 47 ohm resistor at R53 instead of a 100 ohm resistor in series with the 820 ohm resistor at R64.

I know people do it as a mod, but are there any amps that come with a pot to adjust the negative feedback? I guess Fender's Presence control is close to being the same.

[Little Jay]

Yes a presence control is a kind of variable NFB, upgraded with a cap and resistor parallel to ground to get rid of some hiss and boost the highs more than the lows.

I had once installed a variable NFB in my Twin, but didn't find it particularly useful in that amp.

[Little Jay]

I got it from Fender directly:

The 68 Custom has ½ the feedback signal of the original Vibrolux because there’s a 47 ohm resistor at R53 instead of a 100 ohm resistor in series with the 820 ohm resistor at R64.

According to Rob Robinette's schematic R64 is 1k5 ohm, not 820 ohm... To be really sure the only way is to open the amp up and see what's in there. I'm betting on 1,5kOhm and 47 ohm. That makes the phase inverter more touchy and would overdrive earlier than 820 ohm for R64 and 100 ohm for R53. Can't hurt to swap them out for those values and see how you like that. Should make the amp a little more civilized and result in more headroom.

(Assuming your amp is a 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb and not the 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb, or is it?)

[BlueTango]

Dr. BlueTango:
I and my friend just did a Fromel Custom kit on a new VibroLux Custom Reverb amp that was from 2012. It had not sold due to the horrible hiss and other thinness in the amp. I purchased it knowing it was so bad you could not resell it.
My friend and I from MIT got the $97.00 kit from Fromel and it took us 6 hours and 30 minutes from start to finish.
The end result was fabulous !!! Absolutely no hiss, beautiful warmth and reverb and vibrato that was deep. This was impressive. I did it in Cocoa Beach, Fl. You have to have advanced knowledge of electronics with excellent tools. This is not a job for beginners or intermediates. The instructions are also written for professionals and not really clear in parts. I hope this gives you hope because the amp I now have is nothing like what I bought.

Dr. Bob

[Greentone]

Good spot on the Robinette/Fender schematics. Yeah, the '68 Custom appears to be altered to produce more dirt and reverb/tremelo on both channels.

It is important to remember that going back to at least Randall Smith, most amp designers have been trying to get Fender designs to yield more dirt/less headroom. That's fine business, but not what most folks on this forum are looking for in their primary amp. A regular, off-the-line black-or-silver-face Fender would work better for most folks on this forum. For that matter, a regular, off-the-line Ampeg would probably work better.