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I'm a new owner to my first quality archtop and I was looking for some help on how to set up this guitar. The action is set pretty low, 3/64 at the twelve fret which is causing some buzzing around the 7-9 fret area on the G,B, and high E strings. The frets may need to be leveled to fix the buzz, but when I tried to raise the bridge to increase the action I realized it is already set very high (30mm). How high is too high for a bridge? At what point should I worry about forward tilt from the bridge being too high?
Thanks.Last edited by Birddog; 01-08-2015 at 10:13 PM.
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01-08-2015 10:02 PM
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FYI . . you posting this in the wrong section. You should delete it and post it in the guitars and amps section. You'll get better responses. But, here's my quick take on it. The correct bridge height is but one part of a multi-facetted process of setting up an archtop. There are several other things that will come into play to get the set up right. You described the guitar as your "first quality arch top". If that's the case, then you should take it to a "quality tech" for a proper set up.
Originally Posted by Birddog
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Birddog, my advice is to take it to an EXPERIENCED and reliable tech to set it up for $50. Not likely to find him or her at Guitar Center.
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Thanks, that's the plan but I was hoping to educate myself a little before I take it in. As I mentioned before the bridge is already set pretty high with very little tension on the truss rod and the only way to raise the action (the only way I know of) is to raise the bridge even more. Is there a general guide line when you need to start thinking about a neck reset? I'm new to this forum but I'm sure there are members here that know much more about archtops than I do. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Also, thanks to whoever moved this thread to the appropriate place!
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Ookay, you asked to live dangerously so here goes:
A neck reset is ordered when the neck angle has become so shallow that there is not much saddle height for a good string break angle or adequate string action. Your issue as described sounds like a gentle tweak of the truss rod for neck relief is required or that the arch in the top has flattened or both.
Truss rods have been known to break despite our best intentions. A flattened arch in the top is something to be fixed by a good repairman. Or you could get a thicker bridge base and that too requires a repairman to fit to the top.
Whatever the case, a visit to the repairman seems to be called for so let him or her have a go at it. A broken truss rod is a very expensive problem.
We love photos here so how about a photo of the bridge on the top, and one of the side of the neck?Last edited by Jabberwocky; 01-09-2015 at 10:59 AM.
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Great advice from the other posters about setups by pros, but if you want to educate yourself, the height of an archtop bridge from the top of the guitar to the top of the saddle should measure about one inch, give or take quite a bit. If you're close to that, your bridge is fine.
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Thanks for the response. The neck is almost flat along the fretboard with very little tension on the truss rod (which appears to be working properly, this was the first adjustment I messed with). There just isn't much relief available with the truss rod. I'm in Colorado which has a very dry climate so I'm sure all wood on this guitar is adjusting, but it's always kept in a humidified case when not being played. I also should mention this is a newly built guitar so even with my dry climate the top shouldn't have flattened that much and nothing is visibly noticeable to my untrained eye. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
I'll try to post some pics later. Do you know a good luthier in the Denver area you would recommend?
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Ok, thanks that's what I've heard from several others too. My bridge is 30mm/1.18" high with the action set very low, so this is fairly normal? Originally Posted by Chazmo
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I don't trust humidified cases, or case humidifiers, personally, and don't know anyone else that does either. One leak or problem could ruin a great guitar, I think. Originally Posted by Birddog
On the Denver luthier question, the Denver Post did an article on that subject in several years ago that was very good:
Colorado luthiers are keeping the music alive with handmade guitars - The Denver Post
Also, there is a Luthier School in Denver. You could check there for recommendations as well.
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It's my opinion, that unless you're unable to control activity in the room where you have your guitars . . vis-a-vis . . . dogs, cats, kids . . etc., then the only roll a guitar case should ever play in protecting a guitar, is during the transportation of it from your home to other locations . . or from location to location. Cases shouldn't be humidified, as you rightfully pointed out. The room in which the guitars are sitting on a nitro friendly stand, or hanging on nitro friendly wall hangers . . those rooms should be RH and tem coltrolled. RH . . anywhere between 45% and 55% humidity . . temp . . anywhere between 68 and 75 degrees F will keep your guitars very happy and healthy. Originally Posted by skykomishone
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Agreed with others - keep guitars out in the room, and humidify the room. Much more controllable and stable.
Neck Relief:
Hold the guitar in your lap in playing position. Depress the lowest string on the first fret with your left index finger. Press the same string down on the 14th fret with your right ring finger. Then stretch out your right index finger and gently "bounce" the string near the 7-9th fret (wherever it reaches). How much bounce do you have? Tapping against the fret - no relief at all. Otherwise, there's some relief.
A new guitar will definitely take a week to settle in, unless your environment matches where it was built, and you have no way of knowing that.
Bridge Height:
Nobody can ever tell you to measure the bridge height and cite their own numbers for you to compare. Every bridge is different, so that metric is meaningless. What you measure instead is the...
Action:
Place the straight edge of a small, stiff ruler on the 12th fret behind the lowest string (on the 5th string side). Do not depress any strings. Measure at the bottom edge of the lowest string. You can repeat this on the treble side with the first string, but I prefer to go by feel. In fact, I never measure my action at all; I only go by feel.
Get the relief right and these other things should be easy to adjust.
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Also, is this a brand spanking new guitar? If you bought it from a purveyor of fine guitars, they should fix whatever is the problem. Usually a warranty? Whomever you acquired it from, should make it right. If it's minor, and used, and sold or acquired as is, then I understand.
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Skykomishone,
Thanks for the tip on luthiers, I actually found that article too when I googled techs in my area. Do you have personal experience with any of them?
The guitar is brand spanking new under full warranty and I'm not convinced there are any problems at all. The bridge height is just significantly higher than any I've seen (which isn't a whole lot) and I was a little concerned because of the $$ I have invested in it. I spoke to the manufacturer and he seems confident there is no problem with the bridge height, but I wasn't sure if he was just trying to avoid a warranty fix. Thank you for the input I appreciate it!
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Thanks for you advice, I think the fret buzz is due to the change in climate and not the bridge height. If I need to re-level the frets to eliminate the buzz I'm not sure if it will be covered under the warranty. Originally Posted by rpguitar
I know I'm taking this thread in a different direction, but is it possible to humidify a typical size basement/mancave with stand alone humidifiers or am I looking at a major project?
rpguitar and Patrick2, how do you humidify your guitar rooms? I realize this may appear to be an obvious question, but I've managed to acquire some nice guitars over the years and would like to do it the right way.
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The device at lower left has been keeping my guitars in top shape for nearly 10 years. Half of the guitars are on the other side of the room.
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When you say the bridge height is higher than any you've seen before . . are you referencing the amount of space there is between the bottom of the saddle and the top of the bridge base? If so, that could just be a matter of how deep the measurement of the sdalle is, if it's a wood saddle. Is the saddle a wood saddle or a metal tune-o-matic type? Pictures of your concerns sure would help.
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Wow, half of your guitars are on the other side of the room?? And I thought I had a nice collection, thanks for the pic! I'm going to start looking for a humidifier this weekend. Originally Posted by rpguitar
The device at lower left has been keeping my guitars in top shape for nearly 10 years. Half of the guitars are on the other side of the room.
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Yeah I know... there are ten hooks on each side of the piano in a narrow space. I also keep a few on the far end of the room, maybe 15' from the humidifier, and no problems there either. I keep the humidity at 40% and they stay very stable. Many are acoustic and many are old as you can probably see. Been like this since we added the room over my garage in 2005.
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No, the distance of 30mm/1.18" is measured from the top of the guitar to the top of the saddle. The bridge base and saddle are ebony. I'll try to post some pics soon, but I'll be away from the guitar for awhile. Thanks for your input. Originally Posted by Patrick2
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Thanks, how big is the room? I want to do something similar to my basement but I'm afraid the space may be too big to keep humidified. Originally Posted by rpguitar
Yeah I know... there are ten hooks on each side of the piano in a narrow space. I also keep a few on the far end of the room, maybe 15' from the humidifier, and no problems there either. I keep the humidity at 40% and they stay very stable. Many are acoustic and many are old as you can probably see. Been like this since we added the room over my garage in 2005.
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It's basically the size of a one car garage plus a bit more length (front to back dimension). I don't have the blueprint handy.
True, it's not a full basement but it would be equivalent to a nice sized master bedroom with a small ensuite sitting area. The humidifier is right under the most delicate guitars, though, as you can see. So even in a larger space, I think it would be fine.
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That's close enough on the size, thanks again for you help. Originally Posted by rpguitar
It's basically the size of a one car garage plus a bit more length (front to back dimension). I don't have the blueprint handy. True, it's not a full basement but it would be equivalent to a nice sized master bedroom with a small ensuite sitting area. The humidifier is right under the most delicate guitars, though, as you can see. So even in a larger space, I think it would be fine.
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Roger; If you've had this set up for ten years and it's working for your guitars, then it's probably OK. But,I'd have been concerned with the humidifier sitting directly under the guitars.
I use a very high end (aka technically sophisticated . . aka expensive) hygrometer that I occasionally borrow from a relative, who works at a pharmaceutical plant. It's cost is up around $2,000 . . and it has to be sent back to the plant for exact recalibration monthly. He gets to *borrow* the hygrometer (aka, he sneaks it out of the plant) occasionally for a day or two, so he can loan it to me to calibrate the three I have in my guitar room . . (then he returns it). I checked to see the RH of the air being blown out of my humidifier, which is very much like yours, but a bit larger. The humidifier is blowing air with an RH of approximately 75% directly onto the bottom of your guitars . . . and it's sitting directly under one of your beloved L5Cs. Constant excessive humidity in a room temperature of 70 (or so) degrees can re-emulsify the glue holding the binding and the kerfing in place on the bottom of those guitars . . . especially the L5C that the humidifier is sitting directly under.
I have my room humidifier sitting about 6 feet away from my arch tops . . and a ceiling fan running 24/7/365 with the switch position in the up-draft mode, so as to evenly disperse the humidified air coming out of the humidifier. The reason I have three hygrometers, is so that I can sample the RH in various areas of my guitar room. It's pretty consistent throughout the room.
Just some food for thought.
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WOW you guys are like mad scientists with your air moisture. I guess there is a small benefit to living in California though a small house here will cost a million +. I've always just kept all my guitars in there cases and rotate what gets played daily with never a problem. Why is it bad keeping a guitar in it's case ? The only thing I could think of is it might cause premature pickguard gassing ?
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