Johnny Smith's Guitars

[college harry]

Try "Tenderly" from "Jazz Studio One" I believe recorded in 1953 under the name of "Sir Jonathan Gasser" with a group of players mainly from the current Basie band.
His intro is a masterpiece of technique and taste and when he solos on the up - tempo section he shows he can swing when he has a mind to.
College Harry

[fumblefingers]

Thanks Joe D!

[fumblefingers]

As you may well know, he did not consider himself to be a jazz guitarist and would correct those who said he was.

I don't know what you could classify him as, and I guess that's the point.

As I listen to his tunes, there are sections that seem to be improvisations. With Johnny, those lines may have been planned though. I don't think improvisational jazz was his strength really. Everything else was- technique, speed, phrasing, and dynamics.

Right. He's on record saying that he wasn't a jazz guitarist.

[Dennis D]

I have never heard of him to be honest, can you post us a picture?

This may also help ! Awfully good !

Available elsewhere too - -I just had the B&N link.

Moonlight in Vermont: The Official Biography of Johnny Smith by Lin Flanagan | 9781574243222 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble

[kamlapati]

JS is a hero and an ideal for me. I love his tone, his touch, his music.

It's silly that I've never had a JS model guitar, but in spite of everything an inspiring one hasn't yet crossed my path.

The closest I get are my '77 L-5C with floater (I know, body depth, wrong bracing, wrong scale) and my Trenier Special built to D'A / JS specs and feel.

For obscure JS recordings check out his accompaniment on records by Beverly Kenney and Ruth Price.

[Max405]

I think most of the time he was channeling his inner Django, Segovia and the fact that he was a country boy all combined.
He was technical, fast and tasteful at the same time.
What I found great about him is that he imitated no one. And because of that, you could not pin a label on what kind of player he was.
The muscle between my 1st and 2nd fingers, south of the knuckle are permanently disfigured because of playing his arrangements.

If he wasn't a Jazz Guitarist, then I love some other kind of music other than Jazz too..

The master could do it all.

[skiboyny]

The Legrand is a bit different than the original Johnny Smith in that Johnny specified an all flush neck. There is no space between the neck and the top. Legrand may have a neck block but the finger board is raised where it meets the top. As you quoted Johnny insisted on it for upper register sustain. I have owned a couple of Johnny Smiths (Gibson) own one now and have owned a legrand in the past. I think the original Johnny Smith does sustain a bit better in the upper register at least compared to the one I owned. Also the neck is quite different. The Legrand seem to have a radius on the finger board where as the Smith is pretty flat with jumbo frets. I always regretted selling my Legrand cause it was a beautiful piece but as for sound a playabality, the Smiths I've owned win hands down...

Sure - why not - I have one as well. The Legrand is a by- product of the original Johnny Smith - with a slight increase in scale length ( 25-3/8) and some additional inlays . This model was created when Johnny Smith ended his endorsement with Gibson. The internal neck block supporting the canterliver is the same ....and something Johnny insisted upon for upper register sustain. Im not sure if there is any significant body weight difference between Legrand and original.

[Marty Grass]

When I listen to Johnny Smith, it isn't for the improvised lines; it's for the sound and feel that characterise his arrangement - and for that tone!

He's a madman!

I think this song is about our Johnny too.

[Max405]

He probably could have actually killed the devil, with kindness..
Great one MG. Haven't heard that one in years.

[sgcim]

Nickboy,
Johnny used Black diamond burnished strings - sort of like a flat wound. Johnny always tuned his low E to D and usually used a flat wound string on the low E. According to Johnny - flat wound strings were terrible in the old days and when he came across the black diamond burnished strings - he bought every set he could.

Another point on comfort. Johnny wanted the JS model to have a shorter body depth than the L5 - for comfort. If you measure your L5 and LeGrand you will see about 3/8 -1/2 difference.

In 1978 when Johnny experienced the individual finger tail pc he fell in love with it - because you could individually adjust string tension and tone. In his biography his stated that he liked playing his Gibson namesake more than his DA. He also liked the DAdarrio half rounds when they were developed.

So as the evolution goes , I believe Johnny would have loved the LeGrand with the finger tailpc. fitted with half round strings.

There is an hour long interview on You Tube with Johnny Smith and he is playing his blonde Gibson JS retrofitted with the finger tail pc found on the LeGrand's.

He might have said that he liked playing the Gibson JS more than his 1955 D'A, but all the Roost records were recorded with D'As. They feature his best playing and sound.
He used the JS model on his Verve records, and both the playing and the sound IMHO, aren't the equal of his Roost recordings, though of course they're excellent in their own way.

I've just about finished the JS bio, and it still sounds kind of fishy regarding the many similarities between his 1955 D'A and the Gibson JS model.
Lin (and Johnny) leave out the fact that he gave Gibson the plans to the D'A, which was admitted in an interview in GP, and he rationalizes 'everything' by claiming that John D. forgave him for the Gibson deal, and said that John D. was just happy that more of his guitars could get to more people, because he could only make about eight guitars a year.
Right....
The fact that John D. didn't get a cent for the Gibson JS model (even though Gibson basically copied JS' 1955 D'A) and Johnny got enough money to buy his Colorado music store and start his business, makes this even more questionable.
I've already mentioned that Jimmy D'Aquisto freaked out over this whole deal, and when he visited John D. in the hospital and told John D. to sue Johnny (and/or Gibson), John D's reply was, 'Forget him Jimmy, he's just a whore."

I never understood that comment until I read the JS bio; John D. was referring to Johnny's practice of selling his name to the big guitar companies for his 5% commission on each sale.

As it turned out, Johnny sold his name to Guild, Gibson, Heritage, and then Fender/Guild.
Although the book claims he did that because of Johnny's complaints about the manufacturing of the various JS models, JS admits that he cancelled the Gibson endorsement because they fell behind on his royalty payments.

[Max405]

When Johnny left the industry to go home and take care of his family, all he had was his name and his talent.
Why wouldn't he try and capitalize on his own name? I would have done the same thing and I'm not sorry to say it. If I have a family to feed, and I am getting guitars made with my name on them, I am gonna make sure I got the best deal I could get and I'll make sure the guitar with my name on it is commensurate with the price people are paying for it AND I would want to make sure the manufacturer can build as many of them as people want to buy.
If John did say that, I think he was wrong. He should have said, Jimmy go figure out how to make a lot more guitars than I did, so this doesn't happen to you. That would have been great advice and maybe, just maybe Jimmy wouldn't have lived through the same thing with Joe Pass.

[Groyniad]

mike - thanks for those clips

amazing sound and amazingly cool harmonic movement in the cherokee clip

totally get it - i'll look up the other tips that have been given

thanks again!

[destinytot]

mike - thanks for those clips

amazing sound and amazingly cool harmonic movement in the cherokee clip

totally get it - i'll look up the other tips that have been given

thanks again!

He has/had incredibly high standards.

I can't post a link to it right now, but I saw a live clip of him doing Seven Come Eleven with Mundell Lowe at an open-air festival in the mid-80s. What was memorable was (i) they were standing, and (ii) he could reel off he same clichéd lines as any of the greats - but it wasn't in the least compelling (except when he threw the odd bit of harmony into the line).

In that regard, he reminds me of GVE. (If you haven't heard the full Ted Greene interview with him, I really recommend it.) Again, meticulous and thorough; his treatment of triads on acoustic archtop translates 'any which way you like', and it's there for the - er - picking.

I got off to a bad start with Van Eps because I had a dalliance with a 7-string (a very legitimate path to special territory, requiring a particular map!), and I find his 7-string recordings painfully dull. But on a six-string unamplified acoustic archtop, the music springs to life.

Van Eps & Smith have an elegance I can look up to and draw from (but it needs to be supplemented with an infusion of blues).

[Cunamara]

I never understood that comment until I read the JS bio; John D. was referring to Johnny's practice of selling his name to the big guitar companies for his 5% commission on each sale.

As it turned out, Johnny sold his name to Guild, Gibson, Heritage, and then Fender/Guild.
Although the book claims he did that because of Johnny's complaints about the manufacturing of the various JS models, JS admits that he cancelled the Gibson endorsement because they fell behind on his royalty payments.

Yeah, so? What's your point? This is how people with some celebrity make a living. Joe Pass, Barney Kessel, Tal Farlow, Herb Ellis and George Benson- just to name a few- all used endorsements to make some money. Lots of top notch musicians get free or low cost equipment even if they don't get cash income from endorsements. Calling some- especially a highly respected someone- "whore" is pretty harsh. Especially in an unprovable anecdote where both the principles are dead. And if Gibson stopped paying their obligations, why the hell wouldn't JS pull his endorsement? Gibson breached their contract if that was the case.

I never met JS and have no direct read on his character so I don't know if you're right or wrong. But you've had a hatchet to grind about him in multiple places for a long time.

[sgcim]

Yeah, so? What's your point? This is how people with some celebrity make a living. Joe Pass, Barney Kessel, Tal Farlow, Herb Ellis and George Benson- just to name a few- all used endorsements to make some money. Lots of top notch musicians get free or low cost equipment even if they don't get cash income from endorsements. Calling some- especially a highly respected someone- "whore" is pretty harsh. Especially in an unprovable anecdote where both the principles are dead. And if Gibson stopped paying their obligations, why the hell wouldn't JS pull his endorsement? Gibson breached their contract if that was the case.

I never met JS and have no direct read on his character so I don't know if you're right or wrong. But you've had a hatchet to grind about him in multiple places for a long time.

What 'hatchet to grind'? You're the one that seems to have a hatchet to grind with me. You're about to be added to my ignore list anyway, so I might as well address you one last time.
I've said many times here that JS was IMHO the world's greatest plectrum guitar player ever!

He was a human being like anyone else. As Joe said above, he wanted to capitalize on his name.
I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due.
Johnny himself felt guilty about the situation with John D.

Out on the West Coast, where Jimmy Wyble (and if you can't trust Jimmy Wyble...) and John Collins circulated this story, this is a well-known part of jazz guitar history among the pros.
Johnny borrowed John Collins' D'A, and kept it for five years! In the interview with John Collins in JJG, he still seemed dumbfounded that JS did that.
Previously I thought that JS gave John Collins' D'A to Gibson to copy it, but apparently it was JS' own 1955 D'A that was used by Gibson as the model for the JS model guitar.
According to Lin's JS bio, his D'A was completed in April, 1955, and the Guild Johnny Smith Award model's production was begun in 1956, so it's possible that Guild used it also. The only difference seemed to be the 24 and 3/4 inch design rather than the 25 inch of his D'A.

One aspect of this that people tend to overlook is the fact that luthiers like John D. were also great artists, and thought of themselves as artists. John D's characterization of JS as the W word, seemed to fit in with the way one artist would look another artist who at best, turned his back on one of his most trusted friends.

John D. lived for his art, and would even give his guitars away for free to players that he felt deserved one who didn't have the money to buy a D'A.
I think some people have a stereotypical view of the Italian immigrants from Sicily; either they were mafia, or they were jolly craftsman who drank wine all day- never serious artists, like John D. definitely was.

Well, the joke is on them; John D's guitars were the center of a world famous art exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC a few years ago.

[sgcim]

When Johnny left the industry to go home and take care of his family, all he had was his name and his talent.
Why wouldn't he try and capitalize on his own name? I would have done the same thing and I'm not sorry to say it. If I have a family to feed, and I am getting guitars made with my name on them, I am gonna make sure I got the best deal I could get and I'll make sure the guitar with my name on it is commensurate with the price people are paying for it AND I would want to make sure the manufacturer can build as many of them as people want to buy.
If John did say that, I think he was wrong. He should have said, Jimmy go figure out how to make a lot more guitars than I did, so this doesn't happen to you. That would have been great advice and maybe, just maybe Jimmy wouldn't have lived through the same thing with Joe Pass.

The problem with that line of reasoning is that with the type of mass production that Guild, Gibson, Heritage and Fender/Guild used, they may have put more guitars into the hands of people who wanted them, but the quality of the builds suffered greatly.
Johnny was aware of that, and he found problems with the JS models from all four companies after they didn't meet his high standards, due to problems resulting from mass production- i.e. the Guild foreman who refused to carve the top and back before removing the cutaway as Johnny requested.

I don't think that JS or Tony Mottola could have gotten the incredible sound they got from any other guitar than a D'A.

Joe Pass did not stress beauty of sound the way JS and TM did, because he was more concerned with improvisation than chordal interpretation of a melody.

[nickyboy]

So whilst we're discussing the various JS guitars, how about his amps?
I love his tone and I'm really curious about his choice of amplification....and what I can do to replicate that that sound - although I'm aware that it's all in the fingers etc.

I guess it's all the more interesting given that it was the infancy of guitar amps so he me have been instrumental in the design of early amps etc.i

Any comments folks? :-)

[Hammertone]

Any old Ampeg open-back 1x15" guitar or accordian combo from @1956 to 1960 will give you the Johnny Smith sound - Zephr, Continental, Rhapsody, New Yorker. Even a slightly later Big M. Just install four foot-long legs on each corner of the back and point it up so that it rests on the legs. It becomes a fountain of sound! Or get an actual Fountain of Sound, although they are a bit harder to find.

[destinytot]

So whilst we're discussing the various JS guitars, how about his amps?
I love his tone and I'm really curious about his choice of amplification....and what I can do to replicate that that sound - although I'm aware that it's all in the fingers etc.

I guess it's all the more interesting given that it was the infancy of guitar amps so he me have been instrumental in the design of early amps etc.i

Any comments folks? :-)

Good question! Someone (knowledgeable and experienced in this matter) who had asked JS this very question told me that JS had said that only transistor amps allowed him to get an even tone throughout the range. (Just reporting what I was told.)

[sgcim]

JS was obsessed with finding an amp that had a flat frequency response after he used the Ampeg amps.
According to the JS bio, he convinced Gibson to construct such an amp according to his specs, which they named the
Gibson GA-75L Recording amp.

After that, he got a local electrical engineer, Ev Evans to design another flat frequency amp that was called the EMRAD Johnny Smith.

My guitar teacher, who was a JS fanatic, said that JS also used another flat frequency response amp made by Benson.

[wintermoon]

"Johnny borrowed John Collins' D'A, and kept it for five years! In the interview with John Collins in JJG, he still seemed dumbfounded that JS did that."

this story has been circulating for years, I heard he kept it and had John D. make Collins another.
not cool on Johnny's part if true, but begs the question-- 5 years? why didn't Collins pick up the phone and ask for it back?
I know I would...

it's hard to know the truth about old tales like this, they often get turned into a 'whisper down the lane' story that's far removed from the truth.

and frequently some older folks can't remember exactly what happened 50 yrs ago.
can't tell you how many guitars I've bough from older folks that say things like "got it new in 1959" when the model didn't even exist then.

[2bornot2bop]

I never played the Benedetto AA .....but it is gorgeous . I could never handle that scale length.

Of the 2 GBJSA's I've now owned and played, they played like a 25.5 scale to me...one can psyche themselves out over specs...ya gotta play something to decide if it's a fit, or not. It was a privilege to play two, as they're not that many of them around

[2bornot2bop]

I've owned a few and played quite a few.

IMO, there's not a lot of difference between the Gibson and the Heritage models. They were built the same way and often by the same hands. Some guys have preference regarding the pickups, but that's easy to change around. They are very light guitars. The woods are the same, even sourced the same.

I have a Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Award. It's is clearly a bit different. The scale length is longer and the cutaway is deeper.

They are very nice guitars, amplified or acoustic.

Mine is at the luthier's getting a second pickguard with a Kent Armstrong single coil pup on it. The two PGs will be swappable for different sounds. It's also getting fret leveling and set up. One of our members here (guitarcarver) is doing the work. He does a fabulous job and very fair prices. I expect this guitar and another back from him very soon.

Now the shameless pix:

Talk about a "one and only!"

[QAman]

After reading this entire thread I believe there are many interesting and valid points from all regarding Johnny Smith. Some info originating from the bio, others from documented interviews ....and some recollections of conversations - the later of which usually do orginate with some validity ....and over time becomes somewhat embellished.

I think we can all agree that Johnny was a man inspired by Segovia, Django and great piano players of his time. He did not like jam sessions and his rehersals were thoroughly worked out for repetition. He was a perfectionist ...- very disciplined and learned how to read music during his Military tenure - which gave him a competetive edge over his competition. He was a workaholic .... likely brought about by his upbringing.

He never did consider himself a jazz guitarist and his idea/ intent on bringing sustain to the neck extension made sense for his style of playing ......which many people agreed with. .. as evidenced by the sucess of his Gibson JS model.


As for his endorsements - I believe he was concerned about putting his name on a quality instrument and was expecting his royalty fees -..... and his advance from Gibson did fund the purchase of his music store. He was friends with John D and did feel some guilt in approaching Gibson with knowledge learned from John as mentioned in the bio. As for Jimmy D's alledged comments - I was very good friends with Jimmy... and he did have strong opinions about certain people / business arrangements and was very expressive - right or wrong.

We know this - Johnny continued to find ways to earn a living in Colorado and shared his knowledge through many years of workshops and educational material ....which helped him survive and forge a path for the next generation of great guitarist's - similar to what Martin Taylor is doing.

Thanks to all for the viewpoints ....and may the spirit of Johnny Smith - the Man, the Music and his contributions / influence on the guitar playing community live on.

[sgcim]

Actually, John D. made the W word comment; Jimmy wanted John D. to sue Gibson. John D. was in the hospital at the time, and didn't give a schlitz.

After reading the bio, one of the main things Lin F. wanted to say was, despite what JS said, JS was a jazz guitarist, but as Mundell Lowe said, he was 'far beyond that', meaning that he felt the term 'jazz guitarist' was too restrictive to correctly describe his musicianship.

The book describes attacks on JS by jazz critics of the 1950s. They felt that he wasn't a real jazz musician because he worked as a studio musician at NBC, he wasn't black, and he didn't have the same jazz vocabulary as the other jazz guitarists.
He was also black-balled from Downbeat magazine, because he wrote a letter defending Stan Kenton against charges of racism by one of the DB critics. He accused that critic of actually fermenting racism with those comments.
The critic flatly refused to mention JS in DB after that.

These are just some of the factors that influenced JS to say that he wasn't a jazz guitarist.
Many of those factors haven't changed since then...