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Hello everybody,
I've been registered for a long while, but just acted as an observer. Now, I've been having some doubts about the amplifiers above mentioned and wanted to ask you about your thoughts about them. However, I wanted to thank you all guys, the immense database you are creating here on the internet with your huge knowledge of jazz, gear and everything related to it.
Well, digging on the situation, I'm living now in a flat here in Germany and I wanted an amplifier that could deliver me some sweet clean tones with an overdriven edge, just like Grant Green and Kenny Burrell. I'm currently playing a 175.
The point is, that I wouldn't like to have my neighbors the whole day knocking at my door just because the amplifier is disturbing them, but, on the other side, I'd like to have an amplifier that could handle some small gigs in clubs or whatever.
Any idea about I should do?
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07-21-2014 03:46 PM
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You could always try a Hot Plate or other attenuator, but they tend to be unsatisfying at really low apartment level volumes. For apartment playing I'd go with something like a Pod and headphones and just use the amp for gigs.
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I have compared the Fender Eric Clapton Tremolux (a Deluxe 5E3 circuit) to the Fender Deluxe Reissue (5E3, which may be no longer available). Both amps were customized with upgraded new old stock tubes (important) and both had Celestion 12 inch Blues installed (also important). It is important with these type amps to use a 12AY7 tube in V1 to get a more useable range of cleaner tones. The Clapton version actually sounded a bit cleaner and had more useable headroom for such an amp, which is good to know. It also was fully capable of a nice overdriven sound if called upon. I thought the Clapton sounded great. Understand that both these amps are going to have a certain harmonic bloom around the notes, which I personally like.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ECTremolux
I own a Lazy J 20 (a version of the 5E3 design- class A), which uses 6L6's as opposed to the Fender EC Tremolux 6V6's.I have a 12AY7 in V1 and a 12 inch Celestion Blue. The amp has a variable control attenuator to dial in the perfect low volume and still keep the harmonic integrity. It is even better sounding than the Fender EC Tremolux, and the Fender is no slouch in the tone department! The J-20 sounds fantastic with Jesse Hoff's stock tubes that he puts in the amp.
Lazy J Projects, Lazy J 20, Lazy J 40, Lazy J 80, Lazy J Cruiser, boutique amps and pedalsLast edited by Robert56RI; 07-21-2014 at 05:30 PM.
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I don't want to come off like an authority, but I have built a bunch of 5f1 amps (with various speaker configurations, including a 12) and 5e3 amps. The 5f1 amp may be the best amp of all time--for what it does. Its distortion tone is simply sublime. I have a 5f1 that I set up with two parallel 6v6 tubes in single-ended configuration--it doesn't give you twice the power, more like about 8 watts--and, brother, this amp into a 4 x 16-ohm Vox cabinet is aces. An SG or ES 335 will make this rig sing and grind till the cows come home.
However, if it's the Grant Green/Kenny Burrell/Blue Note vibe that you want, then I have to recommend the 5e3 amp to you. I own three, at this point. I play out with a 5e3 for any gig that requires a Blue Note repertoire. I either use my 175, 335, or a laminated L5 copy. This really sells the 50s/60s Blue Note deal. At home I don't have any problem with the 5e3 being too loud.
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I've got a 5E3 and it's really a great amp and in somehow really versatile. It's possible to play in low volume situations, like in the a flat. I have a Cannabis Rex in my tweed, so it's actually very loud, but doesn't Eminence have an attunating speakers like the Maverike? That would be an option.
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Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter
Yes. it's the Eminence Maverick Patriot Series 12" 75-Watt.
Eminence Maverick Patriot Series 12" 75-Watt Replacement Guitar Speaker 8 Ohm | Sweetwater.com
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Wow, I wasn't expecting that amount of answers. Thank you all guys.
If you guys who have a Deluxe, can play it at home and get warm tones out of it, I guess I could too.
D.G, I've been playing jazz and classic rock during years with a modeling amp and I wanted to try something "real". Even though, thank you. Your idea came to me on the early stages while planning my trip, but I guess I prefer an amp.
Will be be the tone with humbuckers satisfying or at least good? I mean, to play jazz and classic rock, you know.
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Does a 5E3 have enough clean headroom for gigs though? I was considering adding one to my amp mix but didn't think it would. I know mixed in a studio it could get awesome cleans. Then I thought brownface amps like the 6G2 or 6G3 might be a better option. Right now I'm sticking with my blackface amps for the time being.
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I use one in gigs all the time now...for over 10 years. No problem.
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I had a Champ for many years. Bought it new around 1974 or so. It was all original and the factory speaker would fart out easily especially with humbuckers. So I did a bit of checking with my ohm meter and hooked up the Champ to drive the two 12's of my Silverfaced Twin Reverb. That was superb for low volume clean jazz tone. The Twin needed new caps and I sold it and hooked the Champ up to an old Ampeg 2 x 10 combo cabinet I picked up real cheap in a pawnshop because the guts were missing. I really liked the tone out of that rig too. Unfortunately, the Champ's caps took the dirt nap and I sold it as-is for about four times what I payed for it new. For what you have to pay for a really good old Champ these days, there's a lot of more powerful bigger amps I would choose.
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I once stumbled upon the site of guitarist Nick Moran who also uses a Champ, but he converted it to a push-pull amp with two 6V6 instead of one, with a larger OT and a 10" speaker: Nick Moran | Jazz Guitarist and Composer
He also uses a converted Vibrochamp with two 6L6 tubes.
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I had a blackface vibrochamp, a silver face champ, and three tweed champs...One converted to run two parallel 6v6. All are great clean amps.
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Nice. What band formats do you use it in? Just curious how it hangs with a drummer and whatnot. I'm able to use my Princeton Reverb in band formats, but it doesn't break up like a 5E3 does. Originally Posted by Greentone
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I just checked out his site. I love his playing and his gear, especially that 30 watt head. Killer. Originally Posted by Little Jay
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I use a 5e3 built as a head through either a Raezer's Edge 12" or a Redstone 8" and have no trouble keeping up with drums, bass, trumpet & sax.
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Nah...a Champ won't hang with a drummer, keys, horn, etc. I gig solo with it, though. No amp breaks up better than a 5f1. My 5e3 amps...also have three...break up beautifully. Tweeds kill blackface amps in the distortion tone department. Blackface amps were designed to yield less distortion, and do. Any of the tweeds I own or have owned blow away the best Blackface amps I have owned. Different animals. The blackface amps, however, got tremendous, soulful sounds...especially the Vibro Champ, Princeton Reverb, Deluxe Reverb, vibroluxe Reverb, and Pro Reverb I used to own and gig with. I don't do black and silver face anymore. Great amps, buy for me...it is tweed all the way. For Blue Note music, or for a 50s Jim Hall/Jimmy Raney tone, the 5e3 and 5c3 really do the job for me.
for grab and go society jazz gigs I still use a Polytone and an archtop. A little quaint but very workable.
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FWIW, if I were starting out and needed an amp, I would likely buy a silver face PR or DR reissue.
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Man, I was set to buy a 5E3 clone and then decided not to because I didn't think I'd get enough use from it because of its limited clean headroom. But now you guys are making me double think that! Now I'm reconsidering...
Sorry to the OP for changing the subject some.
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I guess the 5e3 is the way to go. If more headroom is needed, just put a mic in front of it and play.
You've got all-in-one, beautiful compressed overdrive and warm edged cleans.
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Hey guys, sorry, but I have to ask something else.
I have the chance to get a handmade amplifier at a really good price, and I've been lately looking the other models of low wattage tweed amps: Harvard, Vibrolux, Princeton.. I realized that the Deluxe is too loud for the mainly home use I want to give it.
Hope you can give me some advices.
Thanks.
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If you are talking tweeds, I get to play a Deluxe, a Harvard, a Virbrolux and a Princeton regularly. Except the Princeton, the other amp are the same volume--regardless of stated power. The Princeton is lower. If you want low power, go with the 5f2. If you want the best tone get a 5f11.
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I have had my TAD 5e3 ampkit modified with a power scaling. In addition I use an attenuator and the amp is still not easily tamed to appartment volume level. In my opinion a 5e3 wants to scream. There are methods to throttle it but you will always hear that. It's like a tiger in a cage that doesn't belong there. The stage is where it (really) comes alive. Bottom line is, I don't recommend a 5e3 for appartment use, at least if it is your only amp. For appartment use, I'd prefer a Princeton Reverb any day.
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Princeton Reverb and 5e3Deluxe have the same power output.
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Would happen the same with the 12" speaker champ? I mean, tweed champ, a 5f1.
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5f1 has a little less than half the power of the Princeton Reverb or 5e3. Assuming you could get hold of a 4-ohm 12" speaker (that's the impedance load that the 5f1 likes to see for its rated power), you would hear, at clipping, about a three decibel (noticeable) difference in volume level between the lower and higher powered amps. That's not a lot, by the way, but it is noticeable.
In practical terms--you can still hold a conversation over the top of a 5f1 at full cry. You really cannot do this over the top of a PR or a 5e3 without yelling.
If you put a standard 8-ohm 12" speaker in the 5f1 (many people do), it sounds great, but its apparent volume is pretty significantly reduced. Since some people want this amp strictly as a bedroom amp, hey, no biggie. I find that the 5f1 with an 8-ohm speaker of any size has a subjectively different (and not as good) distortion tone. That's why, when I build 5f1 amps with a different speaker I use a Weber 4-ohm 10a125 speaker. It is a great guitar speaker and it sounds great with the 5f1 amp. This makes a wonderful home guitar amp--for jazz, too. It works best in the bigger 5f2 cabinet--likes the cabinet volume, in terms of developing a nice, full-range tone.
Some folks like building the 5f2, but I find that the 5f1 is the better sounding circuit--the tone knob robs the circuit of just a little bit of overall magic. I have both, but prefer the "1" to the "2".
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