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Is ther anybody who can compare Fender amps with Mesa Boogie amps (specially clean tone for warm old fashion jazz)?
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Mesas have more mids and tighter bass usually (compared to blackfaces). Part of it is the eq the other part is the speakers (V30s or EVs sound much different drom Fender Jensens).
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That's a large spectrum question as both companies produce a very broad range of amps. I can share a recent experience that may be helpful. While I'd love to be able to tote around a Twin, which IMHO can be THE best sounding jazz amp ever (ask Kenny Burrell), I simply am not able to carry one around to gigs-up stairs at one venue I play, etc.At 25 years old-yes. At my current age-not so much. So let's narrow in on something a working guy can handle. If you are looking for something that is going to stay put in your bedroom or studio, my answer may not help you.
I was seeking a small tube amp (read portable) to warm up my rig. I play at fairly low volume, and generally use a carved (solid wood) archtop, either with a floater or built in pickup. I auditioned the Fender Blues Jr. and the Princeton Reverb reissue. I didn't care for the Blues Jr much. But they get a lot of love on the forum. The Princeton Reverb was a totally different story. The 6V6 tubes which I favor really make that amp sing and can produce a classic jazz tone. I gave the Deluxe a spin and it's fully there for clean, warm jazz tone. Again, didn't want to tote a Deluxe around.
However I've always had a soft spot for Mesa amps since I used a Mark IV back in the 90's. I ran 6L6's in mine. A tone monster, also heavy and complicated to tweek into "your" tone. So I went looking for the smaller Mesa line-Subway, Studio 22, etc. Even though the Subway runs EL 84's I was able to dial in a very warm, clean jazz tone at low volumes. Like most Mesa products, you will have to work with it for a while to get your sound dialed in, and when you do-write it down! I also like the fact that Mesa is made here in California, really excellent customer service, quality product. My little Subway Reverb only weighs about 28 pounds, and sounds great for what I use it for.
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Remember Mesa's started as modified Fenders. Back when Paul Rivera was still working in his garage I had him mod my Princeton Reverb and was great amp I ever had. I later had a Mesa Mark IIb and hardly used it they are a bear to dial in, as the saying goes... A Mesa will get any sound, except they one you want. I never used the Mesa much because in beginning I preferred the modded Princeton, and later after Princeton was gone the Boogie was just too heavy to lug around. I eventually sold the Boogie back to Joe Elliot who I got it from and got a DRRI and that was nice, still a little heavy and would of been great with better tubes and lower gain pre and reverb tubes.
Mesa's are expensive, heavy, and a bear to dial in.
Fenders are less expensive, some models are heavy, easy to dial in, lots of info online for modding Fenders to make them your amp.
Fenders are the amp that were the models for Marshall and Mesa and many others since then. All the old schematics for Fenders are online to study and has created a industry of Fender like hand made amps. So there are alternatives and if you know the tone stack and backend you want they can build you exactly the amp you want. So don't ignore the alternatives to the big names.
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I suppose this is entirely a product of my own prejudices but when I think of Fender amps I think of the Black Face and Silver Face models. They've made lots of other models but I never really think of them true members of the family. There is a consistency and tonal signature throughout almost all of the BF and SF models that clearly mark them as being of a single family all the way from the Champ to the Twin. 6V6's in the smaller models and 6L6's in the larger models and all with that Fender scooped tone with sparkling highs, boomy lows and weak mids. The controls are simple and the tone is easy to dial in. I'm a great fan of all of these amps from the smallest to the biggest.
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About 50 pounds added to your clean channel 
When I was in college I had a Mark IIC+ for awhile because I was all about Dream Theater but as I got more serious about jazz that amp quickly became the 80 pound clean channel. they sound great though if you don't plan on moving it.
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Mesas are much more than a Fender with a few mods... I agree that for jazz a one channel Fender is perfect although for me a few simple mods improve them a lot.
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I have a Mesa TA-15 and it is neither heavy or just "fender like" nor overly expensive. I got mine new for $500.00 with a 5 year warranty. I find it can do a lot of different sounds including cleans. This way I can change tubes and speakers for even more variety.
Thanks John
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Hi Batis --
I owned a Mesa Boogie Mark III (fully loaded, reverb, eq, simulclass, EVM speaker, hard wood cabinet, etc.) for 20+ years. During that time my playing interest/goals evolved to mostly jazz (with some blues). However, I just could not dial in a satisfying clean/jazz tone. I tried re-tubing, trolled the Boogie Board forum for settings, emailed Mesa Boogie support. I even brought it to my buddy's house for a side-by-side "shoot out" with his boutique Princeton Reverb. We spent half a day turning knobs and still could not find the sweet spot on the Boogie.
So about a year ago, I finally cut bait... sold the Boogie and bought two Fender-style amps: a new Brunetti SingleMan 16 and then a used boutique Super Reverb from Headstrong (the deal was too good to pass up).
I have almost no regrets about selling the Boogie (except that the it looked great!). The two Fender-style amps sound great and are simple to use (no push/pull, channel switching, etc.). Turn them on, set the bass, mid, and treble to 5-ish, dial in some reverb and off you go.
Disclaimer: I am a guitar hobbyist. My goal is to sit down at night with a glass of wine and try to play some jazz for an hour. I have no time, interest, or patience/ability to coax a good tone out of an amp. So in hindsight, I probably should have bailed on the Boogie 10 years ago. But these decisions take time! Please note that I did not change speakers or have it rewired or re-capped.
Good luck!
Joe
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I can't add anything technical to this discussion but I can say that I wanted a Messa. I like the idea and to be truthful I can't stand fenders.
However, after trying the Lonestar (which should be perfect for jazz) the express 35 and 50 ( I think thats the model numbers) and numerous others Mki4 etc I kept coming back to the same conclusion.
Messa are like what Levinson's are to Fender starts, they're just not right. They just don't have the same attack and sound and without being able to put my finger on it (like so many before me) they are just a little boring in the cleans. To clean maybe or too processed?
either way, its safe to say I will never look into them again unless I somehow ended up with my old Rhandy Rhodes fernandes Flying V, back in my Death Metal days :-)
But fair play to anyone who likes them for jazz, I'm sure they would make a great Fusion amp too
Last edited by GoergeBenson; 07-07-2014 at 09:31 PM.
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Played most of the Mesa amps through the years. I never cared for them for arch top jazz. The 22 and a 335 is nice for Larry Carlton stuff.
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One of my favorite Jazz rigs is my Mesa Studio Preamp into a TC G-Force, then a Mesa 2:95. Huge, sparkling cleans. At the moment, I'm also thoroughly enjoying a Rectifier Recording Pre and the G-Force into a 2:100. I don't find the cleans boring at all.
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Mesa IMO were basically designed for rock and heavy overdrive. Although most amps can do any sound - it is over-driven where the mesa wants to be - beside Eddie Van Halen.
However, Fender DLRs are everywhere - the studio amp of choice, probably the most recorded amp ever, and there's a reason for that - they pretty much do it all, except that Mesa/Marshal overdrive thing. (Although a Keeley Modded DS1 or a MXR Distortion+ did the Mesa and Marshal sound for me when asked). My Rivera designed DLR is able to boost the middles with a pull switch on the lead channel and boost the treble with a pull switch on the clean channel.
Nowadays my DLR does service just for jazzy stuff and acoustic guitar. (Just set it up in a hi-fi mode EQ - plug in your iPad/phone to feed the amp some music - mess with the EQ on the amp till it sounds normal - job done - perfect for acoustic amplification.)
Not quite what an AER or Henrikson will do but hey - making the change would be expensive - and I am not sure the audience would hear the difference. A Rivera Jazz model would probably still be my amp of choice if starting out again.
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I too had a Mesa Mark IV, spent more time pharting with dials and switches than playing. Now have the Rivera Jazz Suprema 15, it developed a loud pop every few minutes. Swapped out all the cheap tubes and had the board resoldered and capped. Now looking to replace Weber 15 with a Tone Tubby, anybody with TT experience? Amp sounds great, but never satisfied, you know.
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Mine started all that popping milarky and it was just a fuse that needed renewing - not failed, just beginning to fail.
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Never changed the fuse, amp tech said it was something in the reverb, heck, he could tell me black is white when it comes to this stuff. Just gave me a an excuse to change out the cheap Chianese tubes. Still want to try Tone Tubby 15.
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I had a Mesa Express 5:50. Great for rock although must unreliable amp I bought in 35yrs of playing.
It sat next to my Roland Cube 80x. Managed to get decent jazz clean sound from both amps so decided to sell the Mesa and save my back/cost of replacement tubes!
I've played a lot of amps over the years and reckon time is better spent on technique than swapping out tubes or suchlike. In reality, the acoustics of a lot of venues can be pretty dire anyway so subtle differences in tone will hardly be noticed by the average beer happy pundit.
Final note, Pat Martino would probably 'get a good tone' of of the cheaper Fender Blues Junior without any difficulty. I'd save your money, and your back, and go for the lower priced Fender (unless you also have Rock God aspirations).
My twopence worth...
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I have the Mesa Rocket 44 1x12 combo which has a 4xEL84 based power amp with the simple Subway preamp section. It's very versatile (3 channels/modes), powerful and portable and you can pull a great Jazz sound out of it. I used to own the older Calibre 50+ as well and that was a bit noisy but the 1x12 configuration of many Mesas lends itself to a mid-heavy sound which is perfect for Jazz. But Mesa's are really all about the overdrive, so they're a better fit for Fusion styles. Smith has always noted he voiced the early Boogies to give the guitar the qualities of a saxophone in a soloing situation--this is pretty much what you get when these things are in full flight on the overdrive channels. Generally speaking, Fenders, starting with the Black Face-era, have lusher reverbs, less midrange honk and a deeper more piano-like bass response.
Last edited by wildschwein; 01-06-2015 at 02:56 AM.
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I've owned a few Boogies over the years, and personally I've gotten along better with the lower powered, less expensive el84 based Mesa's. The last one that I had was an F30, I sold it because I hated the drive channel, and I needed the money to fund another amp. Beautiful clean channel. A jazz guitarist in NJ bought it from me with the intention of never using the drive channel. Studio 22's and F30's can be had secondhand for not much more than a Peavey. Both are great sounding amps, though I prefer the V30 stock in the F30 over the Black Shadow stock in the 22.
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I like the Mesa Express Plus Jazz tones (6L6 & EL84). With the demos of each tube type here, I would have difficulty telling them apart (except the EL84/5:25+ sounds like there's more reverb, though the adjustments are the same). Jeff
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