Gibson ES-165 Herb Ellis with floating pickup

[st.bede]

I played a Gibson ES-165 with a floating pickup today and loved it.

It had been so long since I played a guitar only set up for and fully focused on jazz. It felt great.

At my best, I am a jack of all trades type player. All my guitars can cover a lot of ground but now I want a guitar that sounds sweet in that jazz way. I figure I can pull of some jump blues type stuff on such a beast.

The store wanted $4500 used, which is outside of my budget.

The guitar had a black floating PU, maybe a Bartolini. Could I throw on some flatwonds on my thinbody full hollow PRS. Then slap in some different PUs and get really close to pure jazz type sound? Any thoughts/ideas welcomed.

[Jonathan0996]

A PRS Hollowbody can get a great jazz sound, and I wouldn't bother changing out the pickups. I have one and it works well with jazz, particularly with heavier flatwound strings.

Mark Kleinhaut used to play a PRS hollowbody. Give his Balance of Light or Chasing Tales CD a listen. He gets a beautiful sound, although he could sound good on a sponge mop with strings.

[SamBooka]

whoa nelly!!!

Where in the world are you? Those guys go (used) for well under 2k.

I overpaid for mine about 4 years ago (or 2 days before H.E. died.. don't remember the year). 1800 but mine was a 96 with a set-in hb.

[st.bede]

I do love all my PRS guitars. My hands are small and I do some pedal steel type bending so I typically use 9s on all my guitars.

I threw in some Fralin P92s. Typically I am not a fan PRS HBs but the ones in that were in my Hollowbody II were my fav out of all the PRS PUs I have used. I think I will try some flatwounds and put the original PUs back in.

I in Southern CA on vacation in Newport. The prices at the shop were in line with the overall economic norm of the city. Nice stuff in there, they had a real national steel guitar with a cutaway. It sounded way better then the steel resonator fender guitar that I have tried. They wanted $2800... fun and great sounding but I am not a hardcore slide player. I always think it would be cool to play strange exotic scales on such a guitar: that is just how my crazy brain works.

[Jabberwocky]

$4500 used! Thank goodness you didn't have the budget because if you did you'd be feeling pretty lousy right now.

Someone just bought a black one used for about $1500.

It carries a MAP of $2850 i.e. brand-new. You should out the shop. That is plain dishonesty.

[Broyale]

Yeah, Big Jab the Ruler and Chief Booka Man have spoken. Whoever runs that store must be on that herb if they think anyone in their right mind is gonna pay that much for a es-165 when you can find sub-$2000 ones all over the 'net.

[Jabberwocky]

On the herb!! I like that. Bro Yale, I'm 5'8.25" with a stubby 5" stogie...make that 5.5". I just measured meself last night. The stretchy tape doesn't lie but man, the moon and headlights (honk, honk) look blue all of a sudden.

[st.bede]

After searching around on the internet, I have not been able to find the same exact guitar. It had both a volume and tone knob on the pickguard, and a Bartolini PU. Maybe it is a custom shop gib or something collectable... none the less, too rich for me. It did sound excellent.

[Greentone]

Keep watching and be patient. A sub 2K specimen with floater will pop up. They were less popular than the set PU model cuz Ellis played one like that.

[Piedaddy]

What you said about being set up for jazz! I have a '94 with set in PuP and Flat wound 12s. Great sounds. You should be able to find one around or under 1800US though.

[Woody Sound]

This one sold on ebay a while ago, so they do show up now and then.

[Woody Sound]

Could I throw on some flatwonds on my thinbody full hollow PRS. Then slap in some different PUs and get really close to pure jazz type sound? Any thoughts/ideas welcomed.

If you're referring to the PRS Hollowbody(s), they are not fully hollow, There is a solid block under the bridge that connects the top to the back. In fact, the top and back are routed out so that a big piece of each are left intact to be glued in the middle.

[Jabberwocky]

To st. bede: Sure you may. Flatwounds of at least gauge 12 would be good to go. Ron Escheté (whom I like a lot) uses a 13.5, 16, 30, 40, 50 gauge for the higher six strings. (Ron plays a 7-string.)

The PRS pickups (58/10?) are good to go. Back off the volume until you get the tone you want. It may help to lower the pickup.

If it fits, a compensated wooden Sadowsky bridge would help with the tone.

I am trying to hazard a guess as to what you mean by a pure jazz type sound. The choice of a pick/plectrum affects the sound; yoir technique affects the sound; your amp affects the sound.

So, it is hard to say what works for that 'pure jazz type' sound. Strings snd picks are about the most cost-effective ways to experiment.

[st.bede]

I went back today, asked again about the price. The clerk said $2000. I am pretty sure I heard $4500 the first time. This leads me to three possible explanations. 1st, the original clerk made a mistake. 2nd, the original clerk was highballing me. 3rd, the original clerk was being snotty and arrogant. Occam's razor suggest the first explanation but I am going with the third. They seem to have a bit of the "chip on the shoulder" boutique store problem but I also suffer from a little paranoia.

[st.bede]

If you're referring to the PRS Hollowbody(s), they are not fully hollow, There is a solid block under the bridge that connects the top to the back. In fact, the top and back are routed out so that a big piece of each are left intact to be glued in the middle.

Thanks, I always wondered about that. So I guess there is a middle ground between 335 with a piece of wood running all the way through, and a body that is 100% hollow. I wonder if there is a small piece of wood in my Gretsch 5120.

[Falling_leaves]

57 classic/490R Set pickup or BJB floater, whish is better?

[oldane]

57 classic/490R Set pickup or BJB floater, whish is better?

Only your ears can tell. "Better" as far as sound goes is a matter of personal taste.

That said, I have never understood the rationale behind equipping a plywood guitar with a floating PU. The floating PU was designed specifically for acoustic archtops so they would not desturb the top vibrations and would not involve major surgery in installation. IMHO, that necessitates some compromizes. For one thing, most floating PUs are not height adjustable though some have adjustable pole pieces (the BJB hasn't). And generally I like the sound of a built in PU better than a floater - but again, that's just my personal taste.

The sound nonwithstanding, with a modern plywood guitar, I would go for a built in PU in humbucker mount. There are all kinds of fine PUs available made to fit a humbucker mount - humbuckers, P90s, blade PUs (CC type) etc. - so a guitar with a humbucker mount is very flexible if you want to experiment with a new PU (though the choice of PU means less to the sound than many people think, often a slight twist on a control knob can make up for any difference). In addition, the height adjustment of a humbucker mounted PU is very easy and convenient.

[SamBooka]

I dont have a 490R
I do have a 57Classic Plus that I have yet to record. Maybe next week.

I also have a seth lover and a BG Pure 90.

Disclaimer: I dont actually play guitar so dont expect much from these.

[2bornot2bop]

After searching around on the internet, I have not been able to find the same exact guitar. It had both a volume and tone knob on the pickguard, and a Bartolini PU. Maybe it is a custom shop gib or something collectable... none the less, too rich for me. It did sound excellent.

It's very likely that the ES-165 you observed was a modified guitar. It's not uncommon to install a tone control and do a pup swap. I'd not hesitate to install the Bartolini 5J floater on that guitar.

This one sold on ebay a while ago, so they do show up now and then.

There's a thread on that very guitar, which 2b posted here on this very forum, when it was available for sale. But nooooooooo, none of you were interested!

[Falling_leaves]

ES-165 has no tone control.

Can a eq pedal replace the function of tone control?

[cmajor9]

FWIW, the BJB floater installed on some ES-165s has a reputation as a very good-sounding pickup.

[Jabberwocky]

FWIW, the BJB floater installed on some ES-165s has a reputation as a very good-sounding pickup.

The same BJB appears on the reissued L5C Premier, Le Grand, Citation. Oh yeah, Les Paul Florentine and the discontinued Super V BJB.

Better be good.

PS. BJB stands for Bruce J. Bolen.

[Paultwentworth@gmail.com]

I am wondering what's considered the better pickup regarding the ES 165: is it the floating pickup on theater models or the body mounted hum bucker on the older models?

[floatingpickup]

I am wondering what's considered the better pickup regarding the ES 165: is it the floating pickup on theater models or the body mounted hum bucker on the older models?

I had the earlier version of the ES-165 with a built-in humbucker. It sounded great and was a really nice guitar. To me, that's the way to go on this model since it is basically a single pickup ES-175 (laminated). I never really understood the floating pickup on this model. I only want floaters on my solid/carved guitars where the goal is to preserve the acoustic qualities.
Keith

[deacon Mark]

Yes this is correct no reason to have a floater on a laminate guitar. It can only make feedback I think worse and this might make the sound a bit warmer with build in. That is a total guess on my part.