Mambo / Ibanez PM120 Video

**jzucker** · 03-28-2014, 05:36 PM

Treble was pretty high on the amp to illustrate that it can get a brighter tone than the AI or Henriksen amps.

**3625** · 03-28-2014, 07:06 PM

Enjoyed the playing Jack - but in terms of demoing the amp I thought there was too much acoustic guitar coming through the mic - couldn't really give me an idea of the amp's character.

**jzucker** · 03-28-2014, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by 3625

Enjoyed the playing Jack - but in terms of demoing the amp I thought there was too much acoustic guitar coming through the mic - couldn't really give me an idea of the amp's character.

that's the sound of the guitar through the amp. I was playing reasonably loud and 10' away from the mic so i don't think more than 20-25% of the acoustic sound is audible

**jads57** · 03-28-2014, 07:22 PM

Sounds really good Jack!

**3625** · 03-28-2014, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

that's the sound of the guitar through the amp. I was playing reasonably loud and 10' away from the mic so i don't think more than 20-25% of the acoustic sound is audible

Ok cool - I've just listened a second time after what you said. Probably what I was hearing was the percussive pick attack you're getting from the medium/thin picks you use (0.63?) - gives a very acoustic character to the tone. Sounds like a quite a transparent amp if that's the case, Cheers.

**jzucker** · 03-28-2014, 08:00 PM

yeah, the clayton acetal .63mm picks have the best sound of anything I've ever played.

**coolvinny** · 03-28-2014, 08:04 PM

My mambo sounds nothing like this. I get a much more electric tone, but that is the tone I aim for and obviously settings etc play a huge part. Great playing though.

**jzucker** · 03-28-2014, 08:17 PM

Really? I'd like to hear yours vinny. I tried this amp through an open back cab with a Celestion Classic Lead 80 as well as the AI Corus cab as is demonstrated in this clip. It sounded pretty similar in both cases.

IMO, the mambo has a very polytone(esque) vibe to it. Sounds very similar to my mini brain but with way more headroom, better fidelity and wider range preamp.

The treble control is perfect on the mambo. Not sure why more jazz amp manufacturers refuse to acknowledge that 10k is the wrong place for the center freq or shelf.

**Ric Lee** · 03-28-2014, 08:23 PM

As always your playing is fun and very soulful. Do you prefer the small teardrop, rounded triangle or basic fender shape for that pick? just curious.

**mangotango** · 03-28-2014, 08:28 PM

Great sounds Jack, and great playing too.

**jzucker** · 03-28-2014, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ric Lee

As always your playing is fun and very soulful. Do you prefer the small teardrop, rounded triangle or basic fender shape for that pick? just curious.

I use the 346 rounded triangle pick. After my spinal injury I had a hard time keeping from dropping the standard fender shape and started using the 346 pick although I had flirted with them previously. I like the fact that there is a bigger grip surface as well as the fact that you get 3 picks for the price of one. Can't ever imagine switching back to a standard pick now.

**yebdox** · 03-28-2014, 09:49 PM

Great playing, Jack. Are you happy with that tone? I think it sounds fine, but I know how hard you work on that stuff. Where is this on your spectrum of bad to great archtop tones? For me, I'd give a 7 to 8, pretty high. Nice wood coming through, good string balance, not too piercing.

I'd like to hear you duplicate that setup with your GB10 for comparison

**jzucker** · 03-28-2014, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by yebdox

Great playing, Jack. Are you happy with that tone? I think it sounds fine, but I know how hard you work on that stuff. Where is this on your spectrum of bad to great archtop tones? For me, I'd give a 7 to 8, pretty high. Nice wood coming through, good string balance, not too piercing.

I'd like to hear you duplicate that setup with your GB10 for comparison

I ended up selling the GB. It just didn't have the wood of my other archtops and I couldn't see myself ever using it and needed some dough to help my son pay for his bar exam class.

Regarding tone, the 175 is probably my favorite. The PM120 plays like butter and is smaller and lighter and easier to play but the 175 just has a better tone IMO. I also have a Heritage Eagle Classic thinline that I think sounds better than the Metheny but in a totally different way. More wes-like with it's crisp, velvety high end. Playing with the thumb is very rewarding on that guitar, not so much on the plywood guitars.

For me, the 175 is about an 8.5 and the Metheny is probably a 7.5. I would give the 175 a higher rating but honestly I think the 1970 I had a few years ago was slightly better!

The heritage would be a 9.25 vs a 10 for an L5 or the full size eagle classic.

But there are other considerations such as feedback and you have to weigh those attributes.

**AlsoRan** · 03-28-2014, 10:28 PM

Yours is a different tone from what I have heard from others, kind of "woody" like a Benson video I have seen floating around on the forum.

I will add it to my compilation of "Mambo amp videos."

**jzucker** · 03-28-2014, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

I think you ought to look up the demo by our forum member and Jazz blogger "Dutchbopper." Both he and another gentleman who made a great vido of himself in which there were 3 of him, had a more electric sound - at least to my ears.

Yours was a nice tone, but it seemed very different from the thicker, more electric sounds in the videos I mentioned.

I wish I had time to find them for you but I am working overtime and have to get out of here and into bed. You may want to give a listen and see what you think.

Of course, the difference my just come down to your settings, also, I don't remember if they were heads or combos.

Dick Onstenk (aka dutchbopper) is a good friend of mine. He has a certain way of picking and playing where he gets that sound out of anything he plays. I love his sound but frankly, I don't want his tone. I want my tone. I play nothing like he does and no matter what equipment I use I'm never going to get the sound he gets, nor would I want to! And furthermore, I'm perfectly happy with my tone. Why would I want to get the same sound that someone else gets?

**AlsoRan** · 03-28-2014, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

neither of those guys are Dick Onstenk who does play through a mambo. Alsoran, could I ask you to delete that video from this thread?

In observing you video, it appears the Mambo can go from the tone you have, kind of like a George Benson clip I saw, to a thicker tone that I describe as being like syrup. Truly a versatile amp. that can nail at the least, many Jazz different "Jazz" tones, and more I am sure.

**yebdox** · 03-29-2014, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

I ended up selling the GB. It just didn't have the wood of my other archtops and I couldn't see myself ever using it and needed some dough to help my son pay for his bar exam class.

Regarding tone, the 175 is probably my favorite. The PM120 plays like butter and is smaller and lighter and easier to play but the 175 just has a better tone IMO. I also have a Heritage Eagle Classic thinline that I think sounds better than the Metheny but in a totally different way. More wes-like with it's crisp, velvety high end. Playing with the thumb is very rewarding on that guitar, not so much on the plywood guitars.

For me, the 175 is about an 8.5 and the Metheny is probably a 7.5. I would give the 175 a higher rating but honestly I think the 1970 I had a few years ago was slightly better!

The heritage would be a 9.25 vs a 10 for an L5 or the full size eagle classic.

But there are other considerations such as feedback and you have to weigh those attributes.

Oh, you'll be back! There's another GB in your future, I'll wager

I agree on your assessment, I'd substitute my sadowsky for the Metheny rating, put the L5 at the top, but weight, feedback… can't have it all.

Have you tried the 175 re-issues? The look isn't quite right, but I'm hearing good things about the tone. I might feel better about dropping $3500 on a new guitar if it played well, rather than worry about a 50 year old guitar that cost twice as much. Wish I could get my hands on one to satisfy that itch. Those early 70's models don't come around very often. They had one at Guitar Exchange on gbase a year ago with a mahogany neck. I should have gotten serious about trying it, but they knew what it was worth, apparently, and it sold for around 4K, I think.

**jzucker** · 03-29-2014, 07:36 AM

i have tried the 59 and the regular "new" 175s. The 59 has a different tone and feel due to the thinner top but I like mine better. The 59 reissue still doesn't sound like a vintage 175 and is missing some of the 175 character IMO. The regular 175 they sell is very nice. I know I have said many times that people should get a vintage instrument and I still feel that way but you have to be willing to work. People don't want to do work anymore. They want to get their nice shiny new guitar and just hope it plays and sounds good and most of the time it will but I went through 5 175s and played a 1/2 dozen more to find this one and to me it was worth the effort.

Having said that, I do think the new instruments are fine if you get a good one (no guarantees on that despite getting a bright, shiny example)

**yebdox** · 03-29-2014, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i have tried the 59 and the regular "new" 175s. The 59 has a different tone and feel due to the thinner top but I like mine better. The 59 reissue still doesn't sound like a vintage 175 and is missing some of the 175 character IMO. The regular 175 they sell is very nice. I know I have said many times that people should get a vintage instrument and I still feel that way but you have to be willing to work. People don't want to do work anymore. They want to get their nice shiny new guitar and just hope it plays and sounds good and most of the time it will but I went through 5 175s and played a 1/2 dozen more to find this one and to me it was worth the effort.

Having said that, I do think the new instruments are fine if you get a good one (no guarantees on that despite getting a bright, shiny example)

That tends to be my strategy, as I don't live anywhere close to any dealers with those in stock.... Seattle is 5 hours away. As a result, I tend to try to make what I wind up with play well and tweak the tone with pickup swaps, etc. I may never know what I'm missing, but maybe there's a twisted advantage to that, by either coming up with other solutions, or just sitting down and playing more, instead of obsessing over tone the way I tend to.

Ce la vie!

**jzucker** · 03-29-2014, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by yebdox

That tends to be my strategy, as I don't live anywhere close to any dealers with those in stock.... Seattle is 5 hours away. As a result, I tend to try to make what I wind up with play well and tweak the tone with pickup swaps, etc. I may never know what I'm missing, but maybe there's a twisted advantage to that, by either coming up with other solutions, or just sitting down and playing more, instead of obsessing over tone the way I tend to.

Ce la vie!

what I did was just buy them outright and got the sellers to agree to a 24hr approval period. Within 15 minutes I knew if a guitar was a keeper. It cost me about $250 in shipping to return the 4 175s I didn't like but in the end, I got my '88 175 for such a reasonable price that even with the $250 extra I still made out ok and I'm really glad I didn't just take the first one.

The funny thing was that I got a ton of sh!t on this forum for returning various guitars because I documented my journey here. Instead of people appreciating that someone would be discerning and knowing what they wanted I was chastised and ridiculed but despite all that I feel like I did the right thing and I'd do it again. It's probably easier on a 175 than something as expensive and fragile as a carved top L5. Most private sellers probably wouldn't be willing to give you a money back guarantee on an L5.

**yebdox** · 03-29-2014, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

what I did was just buy them outright and got the sellers to agree to a 24hr approval period. Within 15 minutes I knew if a guitar was a keeper. It cost me about $250 in shipping to return the 4 175s I didn't like but in the end, I got my '88 175 for such a reasonable price that even with the $250 extra I still made out ok and I'm really glad I didn't just take the first one.

The funny thing was that I got a ton of sh!t on this forum for returning various guitars because I documented my journey here. Instead of people appreciating that someone would be discerning and knowing what they wanted I was chastised and ridiculed but despite all that I feel like I did the right thing and I'd do it again. It's probably easier on a 175 than something as expensive and fragile as a carved top L5. Most private sellers probably wouldn't be willing to give you a money back guarantee on an L5.

Good strategy, if the sellers are okay with it. As a private seller, that would probably make me nervous. Maybe the security of an eBay sale makes that work better. I just need to get to Seattle more often!

i could imagine people could consider you fickle, Jack, but your playing and experience should qualify your perfectionism. It's just too easy to take cheap shots and think later.

I found a great quote the other day on civility and empathy that I thought would make for a good post here, but now I can't recall the author/ source. Dang.

Anyway, we could all stand to slow down and make fewer judgements about where people are coming from, before we get snarky with our posts. I've certainly put a few things out there over the years that I'm not proud of and that did nothing to foster a higher connection between people, which is what music is supposed to do, from my perspective. I'm trying now to be more consistent

**jzucker** · 03-29-2014, 01:09 PM

it's simple. If they won't give me an eval period, I don't buy it. It's a risk to the seller to do that and frankly, I wouldn't do that to any-ole-random person off the streets but if it's a pro and I know them I would do it. The other option is to only buy off gbase or guitar center or folks with an established reputation. Again, to just blindly give up and buy new just to get a nice, shiny new guitar doesn't make sense to me. Because something can be shiny new and sound like crap.

You would think plywood guitars would be more consistent but I can tell you from experience they are not. At least not the gibsons from various eras. Maybe the new ones are.

**yebdox** · 03-29-2014, 03:13 PM

Jack, do you like Jesse Van Ruller's tone? Have you played any newer guitars that have that wood that he consistently gets with his Elferink ( - I guess)? Right now, that epitomizes the woodier tone I find hard to get. He plays an ES-150 at times (I'm sure you know all this) and always sounds good, but I wonder if some of that woody tone comes from those single coil pickups, or if it's because it's suspended. Benson's Johnny Smith sounds like that at times, as well. I wonder if you have found that either of those factors contribute. (single coil or suspended.)

**coolvinny** · 03-29-2014, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

Really? I'd like to hear yours vinny. I tried this amp through an open back cab with a Celestion Classic Lead 80 as well as the AI Corus cab as is demonstrated in this clip. It sounded pretty similar in both....

The treble control is perfect on the mambo. Not sure why more jazz amp manufacturers refuse to acknowledge that 10k is the wrong place for the center freq or shelf.

FYI I run my gain knob at about 1 or 2 o'clock. Never lower. I don't use the Mambo "directions" on this aspect.y guitar volume pit is usually between 8 and 10. I leave treble flat with archtops, or about 9 o'clock with a solid body.

**jzucker** · 03-29-2014, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by coolvinny

FYI I run my gain knob at about 1 or 2 o'clock. Never lower. I don't use the Mambo "directions" on this aspect.y guitar volume pit is usually between 8 and 10. I leave treble flat with archtops, or about 9 o'clock with a solid body.

i didn't like the sound with the gain up. I run the master on 10 per recommendation from mambo. I don't like the sound at all with the harmonics on so I leave that off. I bet you're running with harmonics on, right?