Van Epps String Dampeners...anyone use/own one?

[edh]

What did you materials did you use? Any instructions on how I could make one? Does it screw into the headstock?

I'm interested in making one.

thanks

[TonyB56]

Had a couple of hours spare this afternoon so here is ver.2

[Eddie Lang]

Had a couple of hours spare this afternoon so here is ver.2

This looks pretty good!

What happened to the other pics of your previous version? I don't see them on page 1 anymore.

[skiboyny]

I have a van epps string damper that I bought back in the 80s from george. I had it fit to a Gibson bell plate so that I didn't have to drill holes in the headstock of my L-5. Haven't used it in years. Shoot me an offer if your interested.....

[GuyBoden]

Had a couple of hours spare this afternoon so here is ver.2

Can you still use the 1st fret?

[TonyB56]

Can you still use the 1st fret?

Yes

[GuyBoden]

Yes

Many thanks Tony, that's always been the problem with the DIY dampers I've made.

[TonyB56]

Ver. 3 much simpler.

[Jabberwocky]

Come clean now, Tony. You are a model engineer. Sievert silver-brazing tool? I like your solutions. You should whip up a few for us skint folks.

[floatingpickup]

I remember reading Herb Ellis saying that the felt pad merely brushes up against the strings enough to mute the overtones but not to damp the strings completely. The arm with the pad does a fine balancing act. That is why the original Van Eps Damper and Pat Farrand copy (and Cris Mirabella's) cost as much as they do.

That's exactly how the Van Eps damper worked. I bought one in NYC in the 1970's and used it for many years, when I played my ES175 in loud bands. It was very effective in preventing feedback in those situations. It flipped out of the way with a touch of your thumb if you wanted the natural sound of your open strings. As I got away from playing loud, I stopped using it. It just sat in the drawer for about 25 years after that, so I sold it on eBay a while ago.

[TonyB56]

Final version made from hardened alloy and totally adjustable.

[Eddie Lang]

It looks pretty good, Tony.

On the Van Eps diagram that initially came with the damper, we can see that his is a bit slanted. They are even instructing that the felt should "not be less than 1/4" from nut on 1st string side".

This photo came from an ebay auction last October.

[Eddie Lang]

From what I know about GVE, he must have had a reason, but I have no idea why it should be slanted. I'll report if I find something.

[TonyB56]

OK I've slanted it, the only difference I can tell so far is it makes the first fret vurtually unusable when it's down

[Eddie Lang]

Am I having a senior moment or is that one left handed?

Herb Ellis definitely has his on the slant I've just checked a video of him.

The lever is on the right side of the truss rod cover. My guess is that the rail that holds the felt is probably turned upside down. Could this mean that it is loose?

[Eddie Lang]

OK I've slanted it, the only difference I can tell so far is it makes the first fret vurtually unusable when it's down

Well, I searched but there isn't much about the damper on Internet… This forum may even be the place where it is mentioned the most!

So, as I said, very few relevant informations, and the pages where it talks about it don't even mention the slant.

What I have noticed though is that those that have evolved from it (Jennifer Batten, Farrand/Mirabella) are straight.

Here are a few links:

• www.VintageArchtop.com
• Scotty Moore - String Dampers

[TonyB56]

I think your right the damper is upside down. I've just spent several hours playing through headphones and listening carefully and I might be wrong but there does appear to be a subtle difference in the tone, possibly better note definition. The Mirabella one applies heavier pressure to the strings increasing the damping effect which might be why it's close to the nut. The trouble with the Jennifer Batten type is they are players that use a lot high gain and overdrive and do a lot of tapping so the damper would need to be bigger it's intended for a different style of playing, the amount of gain etc they use counteracts the heavier damping effect. On the one I made each side of the pivot there is a piece of spring steel applying pressure to the arm allowing me to decide how much damping I apply to the strings.

[Eddie Lang]

From the Scotty Moore's damper page:

By the way, the string dampers that Pat (Farrand) makes are real works of art, and dampen better than the Van Epps. George would have loved the workmanship. I'm sure he would have argued for a quick release "spring-and-ball" locking system (like his design), rather than the "pressure lever" Pat uses. I've learned to operate mine with one hand, but George's design allows the player flip the damper up (to expose the open strings) while on the fly. With Pat's damper the player must stop playing for a few seconds, or position it up before beginning a tune that requires open strings.

So, maybe GVE's dampers are slanted while the other ones' are straight because they have different mechanisms? Just throwing this out there. I am no machinist nor engineer.


Here is the Van Eps patent illustration (link provided by Vintage Archtops . Com): fig. 3 shows the "spring-and-ball" locking system.

[TonyB56]

I think there's more to it than that I don't think the GVE's mechanism neccesitates the damper being slanted so there must be another reason, I'll carry out some more sound tests today without headphones. I wonder If the patent is still in force, I have a friend with a machine shop with computer lathes and milling machines etc. I might ask him to make one for a laugh. When yours turns up you'll be able to clarify a few things.

[Eddie Lang]

When yours turns up you'll be able to clarify a few things.

I'll let you know for sure and I'll try to answer any question if I can.

[TonyB56]

This is becoming an obsession this one has a ball and spring fitted like the VEPs it locks into position up and down, I'll use it for a while, If I like it I'll contact my mate and get him to make a flashy version of it.

[TonyB56]

Yet another version, this is becoming an obsession

[Gato Jazz]

I can take a guess as to why it's slanted.
Heavier strings have more mass, more inertia. You need more force to get them to accelerate or de-accelerate. So, once the big strings are moving its harder to stop them, they have a lot more energy than the light ones.
Now, the closer you put the dampener to the nut, the closer you are to the non moving point of the string. So the string moves less the closer you get to the nut, but it still carries the same energy per unit length, so it moves less but harder than the wide swinging parts close to the 12th fret. Since the dampener presses lightly on all the strings with the same force....
it has to be placed on a wide swinging part of the big strings in able to stop them the same as the light strings. If not you would over damp the light strings or under damp the high energy big strings. The slanting compensates that.

Did I manage to explain myself? (I'm from Argentina so I don't speak English everyday)

[floatingpickup]

I can take a guess as to why it's slanted.
Heavier strings have more mass, more inertia. You need more force to get them to accelerate or de-accelerate. So, unce the big strings are moving its harder to stop them, they have a lot more energy than the light ones.
Now, the closer you put the dampener to the nut, you're closer to the non moving point of the string, so the string moves less the closer you get to the nut, but it still carries the energy, so it moves less but harder than the wide singing parts close to the 12th fret. Since de dampener presses lightly on all the strings with the same force....
it has to be on a wide swinging part of the big strings in able to stop them the same as the light strings. If not you would over damp the light strings or under damp the high energy big strings. The slanting compensates that.

Did I manage to explain myself? (I'm from Argentina so I don't speak English everyday)

I used one for decades and I totally agree with Gato Jazz. To dampen the bass strings, the felt has to be farther away from the nut.
Keith

[Gato Jazz]

Imagine palm muting. If you do it close far enough from the bridge, you get a totally muted sound, no pitch. Applying the same force but closer to the bridge allows the strings to vibrate a bit, and so you get a pitch. With light strings you can get a way damping close to the nut, with bigger strings you have to move a bit further away to get the same thing with the same force.