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This is going to reveal a lot of frustration, so prepare yourself. Many guitarists say Thomastik-Infeld strings have "superior" tone. However, the "Swing" strings are particularly expensive and at the same time are the most fragile string I have ever used. On two guitars, I have had not only the unwound brass coated high E (.012) and B string (.016) break with just one or two detunings, which you'd think is common, but I've also had the D-string and a wound G-string (.020) breaking at the tuning post. Yesterday, I had the LOW E-String break at the tuning post. To replace a single low E-string costs $8 plus $4 shipping! I have been stringing instruments for many years, and there's no magic method to it that prevents round core strings from snapping like this. You're simply supposed to bend the string at the post before you wind it. On my guitars, the tuning posts are not frayed with sharp edges. No other strings give me this kind of hassle. This is an issue with either the materials that Thomastik-Infeld use to make their strings or how their "handmade" method (which supposedly leads to "occasional" defects) is used to make these strings. It's ludicrous to order two packs of strings just to be sure a sudden mishap won't leave me without 6 new strings ($26 for a set). It's not widespread news, but I have read other people saying these strings do seem to be fragile. Examples:
1. "I was looking for a string that would make my Gretsch sound a little warmer and play easier. They were somewhat warmer than my former brite strings. They were easy to play without much noise. However I'll keep looking. This is the first time I've ever tried these strings. The low e broke when I started winding it..."
2. "These strings had two major flaws for me. First, the G string doesn't even fit through the neck roller bar on a Fender Stratocaster - I had to abandon that one altogether. Second & MOST disappointing is the fact that the Low E string just unwound/broke before I could even get it tuned. As I was winding the string the 1st twist of the nut stretched it so much it unwound..." (same source as above).
3. "I put them on my Fender Jaguar three days ago, and they were certainly great feeling and sounding. I played a short set at an open mic that night (About 20 minutes of play time) and got about 2/3's of the way through a four hour gig the following night before the first ("skinny e") string broke. These sounded and felt great when I put them on, but for the price per pack, there is no excuse for one breaking so quickly in the hands of a professional, practiced player, or for a defective string in a pack."
I know I have read about the D-string in particular snapping, but I can't Google the source anymore.
I once read someone saying something like, These strings are going to reveal any flaws in your instrument, -- as if the "flaw" could only be an indicater of the high quality of the strings! There's always going to be people saying something like "I've used these strings for 20 years and never had a defective string. Best strings ever made!" So, before I get flamed and people rush to the defence of a repudable company like Thomastik-Infeld, I've already done the work for you. Here's one person's approach on defective strings:
"The thing you have to understand, is that every string manufacturer unintentionally ships-out some percentage of defective strings! No one can afford to test and examine every single, individual string (because guitarists won't pay for it - how does $50/set sound to you?) - therefore, each manufacturer has to rely on the manufacturing process itself (along with the quality of their raw materials) to produce a usable product. Of course, they examine and test some small percentage of every production-run, and do their best to 'weed out' any defective product, but this process isn't perfect - it can't be. The only question is, how good is an individual manufacturer's 'stats'? The answer is, "It varies - a lot". Any manufacturer - even the very good ones - can have a sudden problem, and ship a bunch of some string (say, defective 'D' strings, in one 'set') before they notice and correct the problem - this doesn't mean that the manufacturer is suddenly a 'bad' company, or that they 'just don't care'; it means that it's really hard to make strings correctly, and that the economic reality of the marketplace doesn't allow for a better outcome.
The bottom line is, Defective Strings Are As Common As Dirt! we're not 'talking' "one-in-a-thousand", we're 'talking' "one-in-twenty" to "one-in-fifty"! That's right - if you buy the highest-quality strings available today, at any price, you will still average at least one defective string, out of every dozen sets. This is not some fiendish plot against guitarists - it's just reality.
The most important thing that you, as a string-consumer, can do, is to educate yourself - learn the most common ways that a defective string can 'misbehave', so that you can learn to spot a defective string on your instrument right away, and to always, always, ALWAYS have 'spare' your own replacement strings available, so that you can replace that defective string immediately.
I'd suggest approaching the whole 'string question' experimentally - think like a scientist about it. Try a bunch of different strings, take notes about your experiences, and look for emerging patterns. Buy a micrometer, and start measuring the core-wire thickness of the different wound strings that you're trying - oh, and Keep Records! Use a magnifying 'loupe' to examine new strings, before you install them..."
Honestly, I can't tell if that last bit above is sarcastic or not...
Do I have some kind of unrealistic expectations here? I should expect this kind of problem with defective LOW E-strings? Is my only alternative to pay for reliable strings to go back to the likes of Ernie Ball (who doesn't make flatwounds)?
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03-21-2014 11:26 AM
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Well
Sorry about you breaking a string
I've probably have bought about 10-12 sets of TI Swing flats over the past 8 years and have never had a problem.
I love the tone, and as they last 6 months, I don't find them expensive.
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I have used them for many years, and have broken a couple of wound strings early on. I had tightened locking tuners incorrectly and as I tuned up, the wrap was all that I was stretching. It peeled off the core, leaving only the exposed core holding the tension. The core was then bent against the peg hole edges without the protection of the wrap. It didn't last long. I have not had that issue since, and I don't bend the string forcefully before winding on non-locking tuners either, as that can lead to the same problem. Overall, I like them a lot, and once I taught myself what not to do, I have had no more problems. I go through about a dozen sets a year on 3 different guitars.
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I use the TI George Benson wound 12 set. Several years now, never broke a wound string. They feel great and last a long time. YMMV
ps - It appears that Petros just joined today.....Last edited by Woody Sound; 03-21-2014 at 12:17 PM.
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Never had an issue with TI strings.
It might be your guitar .....
Galli strings for Maccaferri style acoustics on the other hand .... dreadful !
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I've never had a problem with any of the TI's (Swings, Bebops, my one-time purchase of the Bensons on sale...). It could be your stringing technique.
Anyways, the high E and B strings are fungible. I usually spend the princely sum of $1.00 to buy a one-gauge-heavier high E and maybe B relative to whatever TI set I am using. Then I use the "original" TI E/B on a guitar which I normally string with a smaller gauge.
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I bought a few sets of their flatwounds (swing) back when the buzz about them started. Got 2 sets with defective low E strings. Even the good sets I put on didn't seem worth the extra cost over d'addario chromes to me. I certainly can't hear the difference. But I can't hear the difference between a $4000 and $40,000 archtop either, so I'm lucky that way.
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Sounds similar to my issue, but could you please explain what you mean by tightening locking tuners "correctly" ? You are talking about a Schaller type locking tuner something like this, yes?
Originally Posted by krusty
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Even a $40,000 guitar will sound compromised with defective strings. Originally Posted by pkirk
But you say you use D'Addario Chromes? I have not tried these for two reasons:
1. I've read guitarists claiming the strings go dead very quickly.
2. I'm afraid the chrome, which is actually polished stainless steel, will prematurely wear out the nickel frets.Last edited by Petros; 03-21-2014 at 01:15 PM.
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I've not had the issue. Maybe have a decent luthier take a look and see if there might be some deal going on with the instrument. Consistent string breaking and the likelihood of you being the 'one' getting the out of spec string(s) would be an exceedingly low probability, in my humble opinion, which for what it's worth does have some applied math and sadistics background, although not wrt string research. Maybe ask the question of the forum about maybe some kind of tuning post thing with the fender guitars and TI's. Post diameter? Hole bevel? Angle? Certainly a number of possibilities, and I agree, more data is a good approach. Good luck with this. I wish I could be more helpful. I do like TI's on my archtops, although the Chrome D'Addarios get some playtime as well.
I own a pretty nice Yacopi classical that occasionally broke the same string and eventually I eased (carefully) the bridge components where the string was breaking, and voila, problem solved.
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if the strings are always breaking at the tuner hole
then you know that the tuner (or your wind)
thats the problem
sorry thats happening to you man
it happened to me too
I threw the tuners out after 5 breaks
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I use thomastik swing 12s and my personal experience is that I never broke a string. I did however get a G string that intonated improperly in one of the sets, but it only happened once. The only thing that I don't like about them is their relatively high price.
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Well, it is true that they lose their brightness after about 2 weeks. I tend to keep mine on for about 6 months. I'm strictly after an electric sound, which I would assume anyone using flatwounds would also be after. Originally Posted by Petros
I don't know anything about that. What does "prematurely" mean? I used them for about 15 years about an hour a day on my Heritage JS before I got a refret. But the refret was probably needed more for agressive "set up" I got when I frst got the guitar than string wear, although I'm not sure. Originally Posted by Petros
Last edited by pkirk; 03-21-2014 at 11:08 PM.
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What hasn't been mentioned here is that TI strings have a warmer response,attack and lower tension because of 2 things.
High quality materials (which won't contribute to early breaking?) and a thinner core. The thinner core will of course be more prone to breaking with certain guitars, certain machine heads, playing styles, break angles etc. but on the whole as a retailer of TI strings for many years I've haven't had customer feedback which flags this up as an issue.
On the whole TI uses very light wound strings, I'm guessing a 0.019 flatwound G will have a core of about a 0.009? (I'm not at work right now so I can't check).
If you're breaking the top 2 though I can't explain that, there's only about 4 sources in the world for the drawn steel so I don't think they are unique in breaking?
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I've used Thomastik-Infeld Swings, Bebops and Sliders on my electric guitars and their Spectrum and Plectrum strings on my acoustics for nearly a decade with no problems. Before that I used D'Addario strings exclusively. Breakage is rare for me. I haven't broken a string playing in nearly twenty years and the only string I've broken in recent years while tuning was a B string that broke at the bridge on my Gitane DG-500.
While I have no doubt that "bad strings" do make it to the consumer, my own experience has been that strings breaking while tuning or immediately after can be the result of bridges or tuning machines that have sharp edges or poor slots or nut slots that bind. In other words, Don't Overlook The Guitar As The Possible Culprit.
My advice would be if you find the price of any string too high or the quality undependable, shop around until you find something that fit your particular needs.
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I've been using the TI Swing 13s for about a year with no issues.
The one time I had breakage issues was many many years ago with a guitar (and different strings) that ultimately was found to have a little spur at the bridge/saddle that was causing it.
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I've been using .13 TI bebops for years and not had any real problems. I think I've in total broken ´2-3 strings which is almost nothing compared to how much I play and gig.
I use them because I like the sound and the relatively low tenision. I don't know of any other brand that has that low a tension (and sets with so thin bass strings..)
I have pretty much the same experience with GHS boomers on my strat btw...
Jens
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+1 on TI Swing 13s on my archtops and Bebop 11s on my semi, still prefer D'Addarion EXL115 coated on solid bodies, play them differently.
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Archtop
Gypsy
Semi-Holowbody/Solid Body
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I've used TI swings for 20 years - can't recall any breakage issues. They're really archtop strings - designed primarily for archtops and jazz technique (not aggressive blues/rock bending, hard strumming etc.). As for chromes going dead, I think they are initially brighter, and brighter for longer than the swings since they're made from stainless steel, not nickel - plus they have thicker cores - so if for what ever reason you're prone to breaking strings, the chromes are probably the better option (+cheaper).
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Used them for years. Never had any particular problems at all.
None. Love the sound, love the overall sound and tension balance.
I think Isaac may not agree with some of the explanations commonly given for the tension and feel of T-I strings. But I like 'em just fine and just have never had a problem.
I wish they were cheaper, but as an overall "value proposition" I still buy them happily.
Chris
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I put a set of TI Swing 13's on my Epi Joe Pass in the autumn of 2007. The first string--high E 0.13--broke a year later when I was tuning the strings back to pitch after slackening all of them to swap out the bridge and maybe the pickups. So I stuck a .14 or .16 in the top slot and the same six strings remain on the guitar to this day. It gets played a couple of nights per week and has sat out on a stand in my den since I got it in the summer of 2007. I have slackened all the strings for pickup swaps five or six times and have had both wood compensated bridges and tunamatics on it with both metal and nylon saddles. The strings have never been wiped down after playing. I smoke in that room so maybe the second hand smoke does something for string preservation. As far as cost, I bought this set about a year before I bought the Joe Pass. The set was sitting in a sale box on the floor of the local Guitar Center with a $7.00 price tag on it. I'm hoping that one of the lower strings will break soon so that I can throw a set of Chromes on it.
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I've used TI strings (various series) for over 15 years on archtops, flat tops, tenor guitars, mandolins, bass guitar, and upright bass (as well as my daughter's violin when she was taking lessons). Never had a single problem. Of course, I am sure somebody somewhere may get a bad set once in a while, but if one consistently has problems, chances are that they are due IMHO either to the guitar or something on it (tuner, bridge, nut, break angle), or to the stringing technique. It seems very unlikely that one individual should get so many defects while so many others use the same product for years without a problem.
I am sure that it is a very unpleasant experience to break so many strings. Good luck to the OP in finding the cause.
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Yes, except my tuners are Sperzel. If I don't tighten very well, what happens is that the outer wind of the string only is captured and pinched in the tuner, but as you tighten, the outer wrap winds around the peg as it strips off the core. The string does not come up to pitch because the core is not being stretched, so you tune further, exposing more of the core as you go. Do not be afraid to tighten the heck out of the lock knob, pinching the wrap against the core and locking them together. Also, pull the string tight as you are locking the tuner. The less slack you leave, the less you wind around the peg as you tune, and the less chance you have for the wrap to separate. Originally Posted by Petros
Sounds similar to my issue, but could you please explain what you mean by tightening locking tuners "correctly" ? You are talking about a Schaller type locking tuner something like this, yes?
Do not be afraid of damaging your tuners. It is highly unlikely you could do so without applying tools to it. If you do, tuners are replaceable.
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they are DEFINITELY fragile. I have broken wound strings before too. This is why they wrap the non-ball end with thread but I have found that the thread does not go far enough down.
Still, they are my favorite strings by far. Why are you detuning them though? You said that they break after several times detuning them?
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