Archtop Feedback

[floatingpickup]

I think the most significant thing I ever did to reduce feedback was to switch from regular amps with open back cabinets to "jazz" amps with closed back cabinets. For decades, I used vintage blackfaced and tweed Fender amps and always had feedback problems. Then, I started using Polytones. The flat response allowed me to have warm highs without a boomy bottom end (something I couldn't achieve with the blackfaced Fenders) and the closed back cabinet allowed me to direct the sound toward the audience, rather than dispersing everywhere and interacting with my guitar. Nowadays, I use an AI Claurus with a RE Stealth 10 and get the same result. I very seldom have feedback issues with any of my archtops anymore (ES175's, L5CES's and other hand-carved archtops with floating pickups).
Keith

[jzucker]

Do what Pat Martino did. Stuff it with upholstery cotton. Warning - You need a significant amount of cotton to do this properly. When you are done, the cotton at the f-holes should be very firm and not spongy. He did this on all his early recordings that are now recognized as the hallmark of jazz guitar tone.

The other solution employed by George Benson is to use packing tape over the F-Holes. Not as effective as stuffing but easier to deploy.

[SuperFour00]

I think the most significant thing I ever did to reduce feedback was to switch from regular amps with open back cabinets to "jazz" amps with closed back cabinets. For decades, I used vintage blackfaced and tweed Fender amps and always had feedback problems. Then, I started using Polytones. The flat response allowed me to have warm highs without a boomy bottom end (something I couldn't achieve with the blackfaced Fenders) and the closed back cabinet allowed me to direct the sound toward the audience, rather than dispersing everywhere and interacting with my guitar. Nowadays, I use an AI Claurus with a RE Stealth 10 and get the same result. I very seldom have feedback issues with any of my archtops anymore (ES175's, L5CES's and other hand-carved archtops with floating pickups).
Keith

My Polytone certainly feeds back less than tube amps, but I find even open-back Solid State amps produce less feedback than tube amps. This includes hybrid amps ... my MusicMan with SS preamp, but 6L6 power stage is more feedback prone than similar size and power open-back SS amps I have had.

[jzucker]

closed cabs do not solve the problem. My 175 feeds back at practice volumes even with an RE Stealth 10

[Flyin' Brian]

1. not possible, since I need to be able to play at that volume in my playing situation

2. I've been experimenting with this, but this frequency seems quite persistent

3. I'd rather play a solid or semi-hollow than take a gorgeous looking archtop and make it ugly

Henry Johnson just puts clear packing tape on his.

[jzucker]

My Polytone certainly feeds back less than tube amps, but I find even open-back Solid State amps produce less feedback than tube amps. This includes hybrid amps ... my MusicMan with SS preamp, but 6L6 power stage is more feedback prone than similar size and power open-back SS amps I have had.

i disagee. My AI amplifier is quite capable of feeding back just fine. It has an abundance of low frequencies. *THAT* is the key to feedback, not whether there are valves present or not.

[jbernstein91]

I tried the balloon solution on my Dean Stylist (recently upgraded with a Benedetto A6) at a jam session last weekend (one that always starts off at a reasonable volume but tends to end up loud by jazz standards). It essentially got rid of the feedback problem entirely - easily, cheaply, and without messing with the finish.

[jasaco]

Henry Johnson just puts clear packing tape on his.

I'd be concerned about damaging the finish with any tape other than that blue painters' tape. Anyone tried plastic wrap? Or is that too flimsy to be of any help?

[jzucker]

I'd be concerned about damaging the finish with any tape other than that blue painters' tape. Anyone tried plastic wrap? Or is that too flimsy to be of any help?

what's more important, the music or the finish? I used packing tape on an '80s 175 for years with no issue. When I sold the guitar, a few wipes with naptha took off any residual glue.

Henry Johnson, Rodney Jones and Paul Bollenback all use packing tape on their laquer finished guitars with no issues to the finish. Benson uses it too but of course he's usually applying it to a poly finished axe. Sometimes I think it's easy to forget that the guitar is just a tool. It's not the art. Well , maybe increasingly it is to some which is a problem.

Balloons, plugs and other such gimicks don't eliminate feedback but they might give you a few more db before it kicks in. Tape works a little better than balloons. I remember talking to Paul Bollenback about this. As have I, he's tried balloons, plugs, stuffing, etc. His view was that packing tape was the best solution with the least side effects

When it gets really loud, stuffing with cotton is the only solution that still retains the big hollowbody sound and eliminates all feedback.

Again, listen to the first 3-4 martino cds for evidence. Listen to his current stuff with the thinner body guitars. The tone is awful IMO.

The drawback with cotton is that it increases the weight of your guitar by 3-4lbs.

[wintermoon]

what's more important, the music or the finish? I used packing tape on an '80s 175 for years with no issue. When I sold the guitar, a few wipes with naptha took off any residual glue.

Henry Johnson, Rodney Jones and Paul Bollenback all use packing tape on their laquer finished guitars with no issues to the finish. Benson uses it too but of course he's usually applying it to a poly finished axe. Sometimes I think it's easy to forget that the guitar is just a tool. It's not the art. Well , maybe increasingly it is to some which is a problem.

Balloons, plugs and other such gimicks don't eliminate feedback but they might give you a few more db before it kicks in. Tape works a little better than balloons. I remember talking to Paul Bollenback about this. As have I, he's tried balloons, plugs, stuffing, etc. His view was that packing tape was the best solution with the least side effects

When it gets really loud, stuffing with cotton is the only solution that still retains the big hollowbody sound and eliminates all feedback.

Again, listen to the first 3-4 martino cds for evidence. Listen to his current stuff with the thinner body guitars. The tone is awful IMO.

The drawback with cotton is that it increases the weight of your guitar by 3-4lbs.

over the years I bought 2 vintage 1960's L-5's and both came w/packing tape over the f holes and both had eaten into the finish a little leaving a shallow ridge that I was able to sand out w/fine micromesh sandpaper.
packing tape is not safe on all guitars. I notice almost no change in tone w/f hole plugs.
they're the best solution for me and I play in a lot of organ trios which get very loud.

you can't compare Martino's early full hollowbody recordings w/the newer thin body guitars he's used the last 10 yrs, it's apples and oranges.

[jbernstein91]

It is true that the Dean Stylist has a smaller body than other archtops, which may have made the (2) balloons somewhat more effective. It is also true that during the noisier part of the session there still was a little feedback on a few notes, which I managed to eliminate by moving my position a bit. Still, it was much better than nothing - in its natural amplified state, the guitar feeds back quite a bit at relatively high volumes (with a drummer, amplified upright bass, mic'd piano, horn player(s), etc.).

[jasaco]

Wintermoon: were these Doug's Plugs that were so effective in killing the feedback during your organ trio gigs? If not, perhaps another brand?

[wintermoon]

Wintermoon: were these Doug's Plugs that were so effective in killing the feedback during your organ trio gigs? If not, perhaps another brand?

yes, I've had them in my L-5 for around 10 yrs and they're still going strong

[Pat Clare]

I used to have a Guild Artist Award that had a huge feedbackissue.
Instead of packing tape, I used a static cling clear Mylarthat worked.
I then had custom Heritage Eagle that I gat as brand new.Out of habit,
I used the clear Mylar and after about 1 month, I noticedthat it eroded
The finish ( which did not happen on the guild, which was a10 year old guitar)
Ironically the eagle did not have any feedback issues when Istopped using the Mylar.

[jzucker]

over the years I bought 2 vintage 1960's L-5's and both came w/packing tape over the f holes and both had eaten into the finish a little leaving a shallow ridge that I was able to sand out w/fine micromesh sandpaper.
packing tape is not safe on all guitars. I notice almost no change in tone w/f hole plugs.
they're the best solution for me and I play in a lot of organ trios which get very loud.

you can't compare Martino's early full hollowbody recordings w/the newer thin body guitars he's used the last 10 yrs, it's apples and oranges.

Sure you can. His newer guitars sound awful IMO.

And perhaps on a 60's guitar the lacquer is thinner, all I can tell you is that on various heritage and '80s gibsons, neither myself, henry johnson, paul bollenback nor rodney jones have any issues.

Again, I've used doug's plugs. They don't work as well as packing tape and they do change the sound. I was also an artist rep for hofner and their guitars came with ebony plugs. They changed the tone too. And neither the hofner plugs or doug's plugs eliminated feedback as well as the packing tape.

[wintermoon]

Sure you can. His newer guitars sound awful IMO.

And perhaps on a 60's guitar the lacquer is thinner, all I can tell you is that on various heritage and '80s gibsons, neither myself, henry johnson, paul bollenback nor rodney jones have any issues.

Again, I've used doug's plugs. They don't work as well as packing tape and they do change the sound. I was also an artist rep for hofner and their guitars came with ebony plugs. They changed the tone too. And neither the hofner plugs or doug's plugs eliminated feedback as well as the packing tape.

I would think that packing tape gives a better seal than plugs and would be less feedback prone, but it seems to me that it would change the tone more than a loosely fitted plug for that very reason. you're still covering a soundhole, right?

how exactly can you compare the sound of a 17" wide 3 1/2" deep hollowbody to a 14" wide thin bodied guitar using the same amp and settings?

[SuperFour00]

i disagee. My AI amplifier is quite capable of feeding back just fine. It has an abundance of low frequencies. *THAT* is the key to feedback, not whether there are valves present or not.

Not sure what you disagree with. That "My Polytone certainly feeds back less than tube amps ..."? It does.

Are you disagreeing that "I find even open-back Solid State amps produce less feedback than tube amps."? I do.

Are you disagreeing that "... my MusicMan with SS preamp, but 6L6 power stage, is more feedback prone than similar size and power open-back SS amps I have had."? It is.

I at no time suggested every tube amp feeds back easier than every SS amp. I am referring to every amp I've ever owned, which is only a little over 100 amps, and not meant to be a scientific sample that reflects the majority of amps extant. If I gave that impression, I apologize.

[careyhofer]

I play a Peerless Jazz City throu a 10" Mambo wedge. The guitar has a sound post under the bridge so as archtops go, it seems to be pretty feedback resistant. There is the occasional gig though, where I play loud enough to struggle with feedback. In the past I've researched the problem and its possible solutions but . . .

The other day I was thinking about it and came up with something that might work. Remember that stuff called "Mac Tacs" ? Clear flexible film. Still out there. I found some on-line called "cling vinyl". It comes in 9" by 12" sheets. Sticks on and removes easily and is re usable. Cheap too. It was about 10 bucks for 6 sheets. I cut a couple of pieces and stuck them on my guitar but haven't had a chance to use it much yet Anybody out there had any experience with it? I can't be the only one that's thought of it.

[wintermoon]

some guys here like tape, but I bought an old L-5 once w/tape on the f holes that left a slight ridge in the lacquer when removed. but there are a lot more options w/low tack tape these days

that said I've been using these for maybe 10 yrs and really like them.

Doug's Plugs - hand-made f-hole covers to eliminate feedback in your archtop guitar

[lawson-stone]

+1 on Doug's Plugs. I was a guinea pig for him when he was developing them and they are a very effective, very elegant solution.

[jschiele]

The amp will also make a difference. A closed back amp such as a Polytone Minibrute will feedback less than an open back such as a Fender.

[rkwestcoast]

I play a Peerless Monarch thru a Mambo 10" wedge & rarely have problems with feedback - if it does become an issue can normally deal with it by making sure my body is between the guitar and the amp.

That said I have a set of Doug's Plugs & when needed they work really well................if I'm going to need volume though will often use my Ibanez AS100..................

[vinlander]

Doug plugs or 2.50$ flip flop foam




pattern can be done easily with using a piece of paper and lightly pencil over

[mercosound]

An Empress Para EQ might provide an electronic solution to your feedback issues - it works well for me with a Campellone Special, played thru an AI Clarus/Redstone 10 ER combo...

[Little Jay]

Place a sound post!

I made this for my one of my guitars that feedbacks (much too) easily:





It helped, but placing a sound post was the definite solution!