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I'm starting to think about applying to various universities around Winnipeg (namely U of Manitoba and U of Brandon if any of you are from the area) and I'm just wondering about what gear I should have if I'm taking a Bachelor's of Jazz performance in guitar.
For an amp right now I've got a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III and I'm fairly happy with the sounds I can get from it. My only issue with it is how loud it gets and how heavy it is.
As for a guitar, I've got a Fender American Telecaster which gets me a pretty good jazz tone but I want something more 'authentic' I guess you could say.
I've been looking into hollow bodies but a friend of mine has said that they lack the versatility of a semi-hollow because a full hollow can't get me into the more 'modern' sounding parts of jazz.
I'd say the most I'm willing to spend on a new guitar would be $3000. Can you guys sort of get me into the right ballpark?
Also, are there any pedals I should be getting?
Anyways, thanks for reading. Any advice on gear is much appreciated!
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03-07-2014 12:18 AM
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I would talk to someone on staff, or a senior student. You don't want to show up with a Benedetto when every one else is playing Squiers!. And as for amps, won't they have practice room amps?
Again, ask.
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A guitar that you don't mind getting dinged up, scratched up, and you don't have to worry about handing it to another student to let them play.
An amp that will fit in your locker, the Roland Micro Cubes are popular for guitarist music majors (unless your school has plenty of amps in practice rooms, then you wouldn't need one). You'll have a heavy book case to carry around and your guitar that you'll have to carry all the time. To the cafeteria, to music theory, english etc. Having something on your back and in both hands is a hassle, you'll want your amp in a locker.
Save most of that $3,000 for your special gear, at school use your not so special gear.
Maybe something like an Epiphone Casino in a light case or something else similar in the $300 to $500 price range. A Mexican tele would be a good choice, and they have a cool factor. I remember having a squire strat in a backpack case with my backpack also strapped on at the same time... two hands free for other stuff, like french fries.
Pedals? Probably not. A tuner, yes.Last edited by fep; 03-07-2014 at 01:14 AM.
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2001 Gibson ES-165 Herb Ellis for $1500 (or lower) over here:
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Why is it $1500? Because the previous owner had it professionally refinished in Amber and in this case, that is a good thing because I think it looks great and tastefully done. It is not a vintage Gibson anyway so a refinish does not hurt it...not to me. Dealers usually ask $1800 to $2150 for one of these although $1400 to $1600 is a better reflection of its street value with original factory finish.
Truth be known, if I am not already guitar-ed up, I would have taken it.
Silly me: http://larkstreetmusic.com/cgi-bin/s...ile=justin.txt .Last edited by Jabberwocky; 03-07-2014 at 04:29 AM.
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Yeah, no pedals please. Ooookay, maybe a nice looper or delay or reverb. Say, you scarfed up that nice inset neck bucker ES-165 Herb Ellis with the nice Amber refinish. $1500 left over. What to spend it on? That Fender HRD is gonna get old and heavy after awhile. I would check out an Ethos Clean Channel Pedal and a light Class D amp. Maybe Custom Tones Inc.'s own Ethos Power Amp. Or get an Evans RE200 combo for $1350.
Ipad and other stuff in the bag. ES-165 HE in the one hand. Evans RE200 combo in the other. Get a good quality Glenn Cronkite gigbag for the ES-165. There's your $3000 budget all spent and you have got a great gigging set-up that won't shame a professional.
Good to go. And set aside money for strings and picks please.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 03-07-2014 at 05:21 AM.
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Thanks for the replies! Really appreciate the advice. Right now I'm trying to get in contact with some senior students to see how things are, just waiting for our student teacher to return so he can hook me up with some guitar majors.
Thanks for introducing me to those ES 165s, I've got all sorts of GAS now haha. If I had the money right now I'd definitely pick that up, but sadly I'm going to have to go hunting when I've got the cash I guess. What're your opinions on the newer ones with floating pup and no tone control?
I'll definitely look into test driving one of those Evans combos, not sure if anyone in Winnipeg sells them though.
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I'd avoid looking at the ES-165 with the floating pickup for now. It doesn't make much sense because the whole deal with a floating pickup is to enable a carved top acoustic archtop to be amplified.
If you are strapped for cash, one of the Ibanez jazzboxes such as the AFJ91 would be worth checking out and I recommend that you look there. Check out 12th Fret. You may find yourself a good deal there.
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Not to be that guy, but I will.
If I were going to college for jazz, I'd bring the tele and a mambo or henriksen combo and be done with it. Screw that--a zt lunchbox.
Maybe a Godin kingpin, if you really want to have a jazzbox.
But campus life is BRUTAL. You'll have ulcers by graduation looking out for 3k of equipment.
Godin Kingpin and a zt lunchbox for the win.
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Hmmmm. Dude, Get a guitar you actually want to play. If your going to spend money and a loooooot of time with it , then its what going to give u inspiration when ur stuck in scale hell. To bring a dull guitar to the practice room and just wish that u had that "expensive" one u dont dare to leave the house with instead makes no sens at all. They are made to play, not to leave & home. And yes, screw that lunchbox. Its not a guitar amp , its a toy ! In My years in Music school no sax jazz player had a backup horn, neither did the guitar players..
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I'd be able to gig professionally with a Godin Kingpin and a used Fender Blues Jr. In fact, I know lots of pros who use Blues Jr's for their amp of choice. I use a Kingpin on pro gigs all the time. OTOH, if I had to have just one guitar I'd go for a Tele. It can literally be used for any style.
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I have gigged professionally with a Kingpin and a lunchbox...(though I'd prefer my henriksen on the amp side.)
When I was in college, the music rooms all had amps...mostly Rolands...nobody complained.
(I was only a music MINOR, but the only guitar I even owned in college was my tele...nobody batted an eyelash)
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I saw Slim Richey with the Jitterbug Vipers use a Gretch White Falcon into a Lunch Box into PA and it sounded fine! Of course, the fingers had something to do with it
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I have a Lunchbox Acoustic and I find it a bit underpowered a lot of the time and pretty much any tube amp has better tone IMO, but to each their own!
I went to a classical Conservatory and there was one amp, an old Polytone minibrute, that lived in the large jazz ensemble rehearsal room, so the only time I could play it was during rehearsals. My first amp (my 2nd year of college) was a vintage '65 Princeton I bought for $150 in 1984. I sold it about 6 yrs later and spent 20 yrs trying to recapture it's tone with a variety of solid state and tube amps till Fender finally reissued it. It's my current gigging amp of choice and will NEVER be sold!
My first electric guitar was a Korean made ES135 copy. I eventually modded it to death (I won't go into the gory details) and I didn't buy another semi-hollow guitar for about 20 years. I bought my first Tele about 10 years ago, previously playing Mustangs and Strats. I currently own 2 Strats and 2 thinline Teles. I'll be gigging my Princeton/Tele (w/ p90s) tonight in fact playing viper tunes from the 20's - 30's at the Vancouver WA Historical Museum
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Between classes you're hungry. You walk into the cafeteria with a backpack with your iphone, wallet, books etc., in your right hand is a guitar in a case, in your left hand is an amp. You realize you have no way to carry your tray of food without setting down your guitar and amp somewhere. Forget that, you just go without food.
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Having recently finished a BA in Jazz guitar (well comp and harmony) I can vouch that any reasonable place should have a practice amp in every room and in the main recital hall. In fact there should be several and they are usually ok.
You will find yourself liking one more, than the other though and there will eventually be a fight for it, so get in to class early lol. Oh and theres always a fight for the practice rooms, so book them at the beginning of your semester and don't bother using them (it will piss everyone off ;-). no thats bad advice lol
As far as guitars you will be in smallish rooms most of the time and playing at quite high volumes because I bet, you will have some young drummers there and some really don't know, how to turn it down from F*CKING LOUD!! Also horns and brass are loud in small spaces.
So that said, you want a guitar that doesn't feed back too much (so the Herb ellis is probably not a good idea) because your gonna spend a lot of time going up to 12.
A thin line model would be best (es350T or similar). forget a 17" inch bout full depth guitar, it will feed back like a banshee.
Basically a nice 16" body with a laminate maple top would work perfectly. Preferably two hum buckers. You won't use one of them (and if you wanted the fusion sound you could) but having the bridge one, also helps calm the top down a little. Feedback will be your biggest enemy.
I would advice against semis' because they just don't have a great 'traditional' jazz tone. I tried with an Epiphone Sheraton for two years and then finally gave it up and found myself in jazz heaven after buying a Hofner Vice president (new model) but thats another story because it started to feed back.
In the end I had greco FA95 which was great. It had a shallow'ish hollow body, and laminate maple construction. It played and sounded like an Ibanez GB-10 (George Benson's guitar, when he's being payed to play it ;-) but had a slightly better acoustic tone. When dialled down it was nice and woody but when turned up it was very feedback resistant. I can't recommend these guitars enough.
In regards to amps, thats another situation. You will need lots of clean headroom because again of the competing noise. A tube amp of 50 watts will do that, but will be too big and heavy. For the same headroom on a solid state you need less power and hanse a smaller lighter amp. The roland Cube 30'a are actually bloody good and loud. I liked to think of them as a cheap polytone (do not get the Ibanez whole tone, shudder)
So yeh
A laminate maple guitar 16 lower bout, (preferably slightly shallower body than the Es-175) two hum-buckers and something like a Roland cube 30.
I hope what I said makes sense, it ended up getting a bit long. Oh and she looks pretty too (The Greco Fa-95) tricky to find though. but you get the point. There are other choices, but off the top of my head I can't think of one. Maybe a Sadowski model or in fact the GB-10. I have also given you the cheapest option in my hitless so you will only need about $1,500 for what I recommended as a first choice. Saves you money for books and buying girls (or guys) drinks at the bar ;-)
And you will leave your guitar somewhere by accident some day, so $3,000 is quite a mental weight.
Last edited by GoergeBenson; 03-07-2014 at 07:51 PM.
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I think you should just play your tele for now. Since you will have no income for several years, gear changes will be that much harder for you to make. See how you do with the tele - assuming overall you find it playable, etc - then make a better decision later. Use your first year in jazz school as a chance to listen to how other guys/gals sound on their guitars, try their guitars out, hear what they like/dislike about their guitars, etc. The odds of you choosing your "lifer" guitar right now are precisely zero.
Or get in touch with jamieh - he is in jazz school in the UK and he uses a tele.
$3,000 is a lot of money for someone about to enter jazz school, and you can get a lot of guitar for that money if you can avoid the buy/sell/buy/sell carousel.
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All very good points all round.
Funny thing about the Gibson ES-175 (and I am not talking about type) is somewhere along the line everybody gets to own one and play one. It is just a rite of jazz passage. Like 'em or hate 'em, I don't know any serious jazz cat who hasn't played one at some substantial point of his career. So, if you have the money may as well get it out of your system because sooner or later you will get the ES-175 itch. We all do.
The buy/sell carousel is something you don't want to be on, not as a student anyway. The thing about the Gibson ES-175 is that there are always many to be found used, it is tough as nails, and if you shop intelligently you can always sell it easily and get your money back! I can put mine up right now for sale and find a buyer within a week at the price I paid for it used.
Can't say that about any other guitar. That said, buy the guitar that you will actually enjoy playing. The telecaster is fine as an all-round functional guitar but the ES-175 connects me to jazz guitar history (been in continuous production since 1949). However, I have an irrational love for Gibson archtops so there...
If you find one used at the right price ($2000 to $2200), consider it.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 03-08-2014 at 01:51 AM.
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An L4 with a 'hog back - $2450...I have the contact info if anyone is interested:
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1+ to Mr. Beaumont's posts. Keep it as simple as possible. College dorms are not the best environment for expensive gear.
Last edited by RoyaleT; 03-08-2014 at 09:22 AM.
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I concur w Beaumont. Less stress is best.
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I go to a school that is known for its Music Program, and I see music majors walking around all the time, none of them are carrying an amp. All the music rooms have at least 5 practice amps. Worst case scenario you buy a zt lunch box and shove it in your locker every time you have to go somewhere that requires a free hand, that doesn't seem like much of a hassle.
If you don't want to fork out the cash for an ES-175, I would say try an Eastman AR371, not to expensive so you don't have to worry to much about it. This way you have some cash left over, because trust me, being a college student now, having a little extra money in the bank is probably the greatest feeling in the world.
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I don't really know, but surely a Telecaster copy and a small Roland cube would be ok, then spend the money you'll save on going out and having a good time. Many, many years ago, I studied Engineering at Uni, I only needed a quill, a pot of ink and an abacus.
Best of luck with your studies.
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Bottom line: nothing you'll cry about if it is stolen.
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Just because the practice rooms have amps does not mean you shouldn't. How you gonna play gigs if you don't have your own amp?
To the OP, keep your HR Deluxe / Tele rig cause that will let you play pretty much any kind of gig you get. But if in addition to your current gear (do NOT sell it!!!!!) you want something that looks a bit more trad jazz I'll echo some of the folks above and recommend an Eastman 371/2 or a 403.
As for amps, not being a fan of solid state, anything lighter than a HR will mean less power. A DRRI can make a perfect jazz amp with the right guitar/speaker though it might be underpowered/bright for some situations -- which is why you should keep your HR. I have a Twin for when my Princeton is not enough -- I've never needed to gig the Twin in a jazz setting.
The only solid state amp I've really liked with electric guitar is the Tech21 Trademark 60. Loud enough for a small rock band and light weight. A friend of mine used one for several years till it blew. Now he uses an Anderson Metro with a DRRI on gigs exclusively, even though he also owns a Polytone and a Roland Cube (the orange one.)
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I would just note that having been to Jazz school recently, A Es-175 will have feed back issue and the modern Eastman version of that has a very thin top, which is great but will be an even bigger issue. Also the other Eastmen choice the 403 will feed back like a banshee and be almost unusable. Originally Posted by D.G.
You will spend most of your time sitting either on or very closed to your amp. You will also be surrounded with other instruments making a lot of noise.
I really can't stress how pissed your gonna be if you buy a guitar that you practically can't use.
Nothing worse than trying to solo and think about your playing, when the moment you take your hands off the strings to play, then thing starts wailing.
Just bare that in mind. Go to the place look at the room sizes etc. Then try some of the suggested guitars in a shop and stand next to the amp and turn it up loud. See what happens.
Pick the one you like the most but that will be practical.
Also don't forget, even if you do what I suggested in the shop you won't have the added vibrations of the all the either instruments playing around you.
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Real life is not like the practice room, but your points are well taken. That's why a Tele HR combo will work in practically all situations. A semi is also a good compromise between a fully hollow archtop and a solid body, and a good 335 type is almost as flexible stylistically as a Tele.
Do NOT sit on your amp, but in a crowded practice room, put it on the opposite side of where you are so you can hear it and point it up towards your head, not your knees. This simple technique will allow you to use a pretty low power amp and a fairly feedback prone guitar relatively effectively.
Many young players play way too loud, especially drummers and guitar players. Eventually, when you get old and cranky enough you'll be much more willing to tell everyone else in the band to turn the #$)@ down Brass players should have an absolute arsenal of mutes at their disposal and any reed player worth their salt can come down almost to acoustic guitar level. Ok, maybe not Bari's 
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