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Hi all, new to these forums and I'm sure I'll be around a lot more. I'm currently looking for sub $1000 arch tops to get started in big band and swing styled music. I'm a huge Glenn Miller and Benny Goodman fan and was hoping to catch some of that vibe. Any suggestions for what guitar and any help with what direction tonally to go for would be greatly appreciated.
Side note: I would have searched for an answer but the search tool is broken.
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03-06-2014 08:02 PM
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Welcome Zowno.
Do you already play guitar?
Do you want to mic an acoustic archtop, or plug into an amp?
If you want to use an amp, does your $1k max include the amp?
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Ive played guitar for 3 years now. I come from an alt/dreamy/surf background but have always loved jazz guitar. I own a 70s super reverb which I can get great cleans from.
I am also a producer so being able to record the guitar acoustically as well as as amped would be a good idea.
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Something from Peerless, Hagstrom or Godin would be my call.
But a 335, Tele or Les Paul would be fine too.
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I'm liking the vibe from the hagstrom hl550 or the Eastman ar403. Would either of these be suitable? Living in Australia means that most guitars, even the cheap ones, can often stretch the wallet further than I'd like, so unfortunately peerless seems just out of reach.
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Laminates - both are popular and will sound great via an amp.
Might be ok unamplified, but unless you're willing to pay the price of a new small car a carved top that plays acoustically and amplified, they are probably good choices
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Thank you for your help.
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Sounds like you want a "Loar."
Check out the 600/650.
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Yes, or a Loar.
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I started playing big band rhythm guitar (acoustic) with a Godin 5th ave. I'm using a Loar 300 right now, which has a much better sound. Both are economical ways to get started. Check out Charlton Johnson's book on Big Band rhythm guitar playing. It was key to understanding the approach for me.
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My father played what was called "swing" music in small combos and orchestras in the 1930's and '40's. I have some photos of some of those groups and the guitar player is typically wielding a large Epiphone. Some electrified and some purely acoustic. Therefore, perhaps a large hollow modern Epi like the Broadway or Regent might fit you. And well inside your budget, especially used.
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Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were looking for gear to actually play out with a certain big band.
Originally Posted by zowno
If you're playing along at home, any of the guitars mentioned by others would be fine. But for that real 40's dance band vibe (which seems what you're most interested in) the more acoustic sounding the better. Of what has been mentioned here, I've played Eastmans and Peerless; from what I played, the Eastmans have a much more acoustic vibe.
If you want to be really authentic, get a non-cutaway acoustic archtop. But keep in mind if you want to use it for other things, it might be impractical.
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In the bottom left photo the guitarist looks like a young Aaron "T-Bone" Walker with the position of his instrument.
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If any there are any used Eastman 810 or 805 guitars in your area they may be in the budget as well.
Since your going to be playing in a Big Band/Swing band, here are some great "How to..." videos on playing arch top in that style...
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+1 on Mr. B's Loar recommendation. You can get a used LH-700 for $900 US or less. Not sure how hard they are to get in Australia. They are incredibly loud, well made, and sound great. You could add a floating pickup for your tube amp or a K&K pickup for a more natural acoustic sound.
Last edited by spiral; 03-07-2014 at 01:19 PM.
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I dig those videos by James Chirillo, but I don't think for big band having a tube amp is essential at all - certainly less so in than in more "combo" oriented jazz, IMO. Also, don't underestimate the importance of your speaker size/speaker cabinet for big band. I currently power a Raezer's Edge 10" cabinet (JG-10 - which is perfect for big band since it has a more acoustic voice when placed vertically) with a humble ZT Lunchbox in big band, and I'm not going back. It helps my sound, which in turn helps the entire band. Everyone can hear me and feel me better without me stepping on the horns' toes.
I mention this because there is probably some interplay between your guitar budget and your amp/cabinet budget.
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For what it's worth, IMO, archtops are not made for sound but for loudness. With no amp to help. To be played as a rhythm instrument at barn dance or similar event. In otheer words, you can know it's true sound only if you play chords, forcefully. For that pourpose, any will sound good. With addition of an amp, electronics take over the wood, so again, any will do, with strong enough humbuckers.
Only if you're into fine solo work all so to say nuances, mentioned in previous posts, become part of equation.
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[QUOTE=Vladan;405222]For what it's worth, IMO, archtops are not made for sound but for loudness. With no amp to help. To be played as a rhythm instrument at barn dance or similar event. In otheer words, you can know it's true sound only if you play chords, forcefully. For that pourpose, any will sound good. With addition of an amp, electronics take over the wood, so again, any will do, with strong enough humbuckers.
Only if you're into fine solo work all so to say nuances, mentioned in previous posts, become [\QUOTE]
An arch top can be a beautifully sensitive sounding acoustic...bracing, strings, setup, attack...All of that matters.
They are not just loud...but they can be.
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I agree, I mean that' s what I said, too. For solo work, you have to do the search. For Big Band strumming, not so much.
Once I rehearsed something with some peasants (no offense meant to nice hardworking people), trying to make some sound ... They could only ask me to play each song strumming always the same pattern, each time. So I did for a while. Boy, is that X155 loud. Guess tele through 100W amp would not match it.
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You really think any archtop with the right setup can bark out good big band rhythm?
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My experience is limited, I never played in a big band and used only a couple of archtops, but the opinion I developed is such. If you' re to act as tuned "harmony" perussion, chuk chuk strum sttum, I don't see any problem with any guitar.
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You have no big band experience and you are commenting on what would work well in big band? I'm not surprised because when you started talking about "strumming" I was thinking...well, maybe I strum the last chord of the song when it is a conducted ending, but the other 99% of the time I am not "strumming"...I am bouncing - for lack of a better term - diads (not "chords"). There is a lot of technique involved, which I have by no means mastered. Originally Posted by Vladan
I've played a jazztele and an archtop in big bands for over 2 years now. The archtop and tele had the EXACT same pickups, strings, pick, amp, player. For the rhythmic thing that is the guitar's primary role in that setting, the archtop has more bounce and you can get more nuance into the swing rhythm - and the effect is magnified with a larger speaker enclosure. Sure for fast latin songs or solos and doubling melody parts it comes down to taste, but for the usual rhythm thing I feel I help the band more when I have the archtop. Really, for me, that's what it's about - helping the band.
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Part of the problem is not all big bands are alike...
"Big Band" doesn't necessarily mean you'll just be playing four on the floor rhythm like freddie green. And if that is the case, that that's ALL you're doing, having the right guitar for the job really helps.
I did a short amount of time with a big band about 5 years ago. Used my big ol Kay, jacked the action up, bronze strings, barely amplified...more to "feel" it. But this was a "nostalgia" act...swing, all 30's thru 50's stuff.
Most modern big band situations that aren't doing the "old time" music, I see a lot of 335 style guitars. Totally different sound and role.
Looking back at the OP, he's not in a band yet, just getting into the sound...but he digs the classic sound. Best way there on a budget is the Loar.
I need to get my hands on an Eastman to demo the difference between their tonal aesthetic and that of the parallel braced Loars...VERY different.
No, all archtops are not the same...
BTW, those Chirillo videos are just gold. And I agree coolvinny, the only only thing that caught me off guard was the tube amp comment...I guess if you're going for the whole package...but if I had a big band gig tomorrow, I think I'd actually take the DeArmond off my Kay and put it on my Loar, jack the strings UP, and bring my 15" polytone...set the amp as low as I can get away with, and chunk away.
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Coolviny, my point is not in playability of an instrument, but in it's sound.
Also, it's NOT about "archtop vs. solidbody".
It is about ""any archtop" vs. "any other archtop"", as far as it role is in a big band.
I did not play, but I listened to recording, and I can feel free to challenge anybody on recognizing the difference btw any two archtops, of own choice, ofcourse without visual reference or historical knoweledge, provided both are enough and about equaly loud.
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Originally Posted by Vladan
Amplified or unamplified? If unamplified, it makes a huge difference what guitar you play. A laminate guitar just won't cut it. If amplified, then you have an even bigger set of parameters to consider, such as pickups, amplifier, settings on guitar and amp, etc. Even "unamplified" you'll usually have some sort of amplification, even if it's just a mic and then you have to start thinking about mic type, placement, monitors, etc.
This is a meaningless comparison. What is meaningful is how you, the player, feel about your instrument and how your band mates hear you. Originally Posted by Vladan
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