Eastman Pick-ups and Electronics

**DRS** · 03-01-2014, 01:30 AM

So my Eastman AR810CE has the Kent Armstrong HJGS6-GD. How good is it? I already know that it is more transparent than the PAF style pickups I'm used to. Does it compare to a Bartolini or Benedetto pickup? I see the tone control barely works. All the tone cut is in the last 1/8 of a turn of the dial. Is there a decent replacement? See, I'm bringing all the TGP baggage with me

**Engine Swap** · 03-01-2014, 09:03 AM

I have a 371 and have been going back and forth about replacing the KA pickup. It doesn't sound bad, but it's just not quite there.

sounds like there may be a problem with the tone pot or possibly an incorrect cap value. Mine is effective throught the sweep range of the pot.

The standard drill is to replace them with CTS pots (which will require slightly enlarging the holes).

**monkmiles** · 03-01-2014, 10:02 AM

I can't speak for the hjgs6. But I can for the electronics and hpan/hpag pickups in the ar403 and ar371.

I had a tech replace all the electronics in my ar403 with a classic 57 pickup, CTS pots' orange drop cap and a switch craft jack. It is an improvement to me. The pots are a tad more even in their response and the pickup has slightly more color. But the differences are slight really. The hpag/hpan are paf style pickups, so its not really a big change. I'm happy with it but I now think you get more tonal changes from speakers and strings unless you make a more drastic pickup change to a different style/type.

**krusty** · 03-01-2014, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by hallpass

... But the differences are slight really. ... I now think you get more tonal changes from speakers and strings unless you make a more drastic pickup change to a different style/type.

I think you are the first person I have seen to not subscribe to the TGP style hype that a minor electronics change will make a "night & day" difference. I agree thoroughly with your statements. The only time you will notice a big difference is if one of the components you were replacing was faulty, or you change the values of components. To do that, though, you need to be certain of what you hope to accomplish first.

That being said, it sounds like the OP may indeed have a component that is not quite right. I have an old National lap steel guitar, and as an exercise a few weeks ago, I pulled the original capacitor and tested it (Meggar insulation tester and capacitance meter - don't ask why I have one, I just do). The old paper & oil capacitor tested at more than double it's rated value. I replaced it with a modern one of the correct value, and suddenly the highs were there, in all their glory, and weren't attenuated by a small change in the tone knob position.

**jazzrat** · 03-01-2014, 10:37 AM

I agree with HallPass...I changed out my pickup and electronics with a Classic 57 and CTS pots.
The tone is a little more complex and the controls respond a little smoother with a better range of tones and volumes
but it was not night and day...still worth doing for me.

**DRS** · 03-01-2014, 12:47 PM

My guitar has the floating KA pup and the little flat micro-pots attached to the underside of the finger rest so the standard CTS solution won't work. I'll see what StewMac has. But anyone else have experience with other floating pickups?

**jads57** · 03-01-2014, 01:26 PM

DRS I have the same guitar 810CES on which I replaced the original p/up w/ a handmade Kent Armstrong Alnico floating humbucker. Much improved tone! Here's a link to one:http://archtop.com/ac_access.html

**Socalbill** · 03-01-2014, 01:38 PM

I have an 805CES with the same pickup and tone volume controls. I don't think there is anything wrong with your tone control, as mine is the same. I think thats the way they made them. I too have been thinking about a different pickup and electronics so I would be very interested to hear what you decide to do. I find myself thinking of my 805 as more of an amplified acoustic and I have been wondering if trying to make it sound more electric is a mistake. Maybe even a Fishman bridge:
http://www.fishman.com/products/view...uitar-pickup-1
Bill

**DRS** · 03-01-2014, 02:22 PM

I see Stewmac sells a nifty Schatten tone/volume thumbwheel set up for $36. Maybe a good start.

Socallbill, you're correct. The stock tone is pretty good. It's an amplified version of the acoustic sound. very clear. I'm just fighting the urge to go for the Wes tone.

**2bornot2bop** · 03-01-2014, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by DRS

Does it compare to a Bartolini pickup?

If you're referring to the Bartolini 5J floater...absolutely - NOT.

**Spook410** · 03-01-2014, 02:45 PM

Yunzhi comes with a Wilkinson floating pickup. IMHO they are pretty awful. So are the other components. Swapped for a Kent Armstrong 12 pole floater and Schatten thumbwheels. The difference was, in fact, night and day.

**tonedeaf** · 03-01-2014, 10:58 PM

I have an early model 805CE and the KA licensed PUPs were fairly poor. I replaced mine with a Benedetto 6 and put real pots on pick guard. Huge difference. It seems that in later models the Asian made KAs are much improved.

**jzucker** · 03-02-2014, 11:39 PM

The KAs in my T386 are great. I think there is a lot of internet hype surrounding the whole issue of replacement pickups, pots, caps, resistors, etc.

Much of the sound of the eastman archtops is the thin, carved tops and the x-bracing. The guitars tend to have a bit nasally voice and that is reflected in it's electric sound. It's why i never bonded with several 803s and other archtops of theirs. I really like the T386 and the el rey and I've heard good tones out of the 403 which is probably similar to the 371 series. I'm hoping they start using parallel bracing in some of their guitars with a little thicker top to get more of an L5 vibe.

**Jim Soloway** · 03-03-2014, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

The KAs in my T386 are great. I think there is a lot of internet hype surrounding the whole issue of replacement pickups, pots, caps, resistors, etc.

Much of the sound of the eastman archtops is the thin, carved tops and the x-bracing. The guitars tend to have a bit nasally voice and that is reflected in it's electric sound. It's why i never bonded with several 803s and other archtops of theirs. I really like the T386 and the el rey and I've heard good tones out of the 403 which is probably similar to the 371 series. I'm hoping they start using parallel bracing in some of their guitars with a little thicker top to get more of an L5 vibe.

Ummmm Jack ... I believe the first thing you suggested in the thread about my new Heritage was that I should replace the pickup.

**StevieB** · 03-03-2014, 01:32 AM

Does anyone know which model # Kent Armstrong pickup is installed in the Eastman AR880CE 'John Pisano' guitar?

**BigMikeinNJ** · 03-03-2014, 07:04 AM

The 880 has a made in America by Kent Armstrong 12 pole black pickup. You can find them on eBay easily. They are quite nice. Cost, about $156.00.

**jzucker** · 03-03-2014, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Ummmm Jack ... I believe the first thing you suggested in the thread about my new Heritage was that I should replace the pickup.

ummmmm Jim, that's because I highly recommend unpotted pickups in carved archtops. The difference in those is easily apparent by the click test and that fact that it acts as a microphone. That's different than the hype surrounding replacing a volume pot or a capacitor.

**PTChristopher2** · 03-03-2014, 09:28 AM

[DRS] >>> All the tone cut is in the last 1/8 of a turn of the dial. Is there a decent replacement?

Pots can be made with an "audio" (logarithmic) taper. For thumbwheel pots, and their unusual (upside-down) orientation, the taper needs to be reversed vs. the typical orientation.

I have seen Eastman guitars with pots that had the audio taper in the wrong direction. The symptom is as you describe.

The solution is one of three easy ones:

- Replace the pot with one that has the taper in the right direction.

- Add a thin ebony (or rosewood, or brass) bracket under the PG to allow mounting the pot upside down vs. the current mount. Then rewire the pot in the opposite direction.

- Just rewire the pot and use it backwards. I mean you do not do live "tone" swells or anything on this guitar, so backwards works just fine.

But in any case, first check that the taper is the actual problem. This is very easy to do with an ohm meter. It is always possible that there is another reason for your issue - an extremely high pot value (so an impedance mismatch) could be it as well.

Chris

**Jim Soloway** · 03-03-2014, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

ummmmm Jim, that's because I highly recommend unpotted pickups in carved archtops. The difference in those is easily apparent by the click test and that fact that it acts as a microphone. That's different than the hype surrounding replacing a volume pot or a capacitor.

I was referring to your comment "I think there is a lot of internet hype surrounding the whole issue of replacement pickups". Replacement pickups are replacement pickups whether it's because of who made them or the construction by which they were made.

**passfan** · 03-03-2014, 11:00 AM

It's not really necessary to replace the tone pot.I have an Eastman 905 CE and replaced the stock KA pickup with the handmade KA. The problem with the tone pot is the taper and can be resolved by reverse wiring it and soldering a 470K resistor across the terminals.I also changed the capacitor to a 0.015 uF P.I.O. I don't think the type of cap.makes much difference but some people will dispute that.I now have full tone control over the complete movement of the pot but of course it works in the opposite direction but I've never found that to be a problem.
Just an idea but it has worked perfectly for me.

**DRS** · 03-03-2014, 11:43 AM

Why reverse the terminals? Is the taper different in the other direction?

**Jim Soloway** · 03-03-2014, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by DRS

Why reverse the terminals? Is the taper different in the other direction?

Yes. Guitar pots are nonlinear. We've inadvertently put in left handed pots a few times and the difference in the taper is really dramatic.

**passfan** · 03-03-2014, 11:58 AM

PTChristopher2

Join DateDec 2013Posts236

[DRS] >>> All the tone cut is in the last 1/8 of a turn of the dial. Is there a decent replacement?

Pots can be made with an "audio" (logarithmic) taper. For thumbwheel pots, and their unusual (upside-down) orientation, the taper needs to be reversed vs. the typical orientation.
See Chris's comments above.
Yep,the thumbwheel pots.on the Eastman are log.and by reversing them and putting the resistor in parallel as I did it makes them more linear and effectively turns the 500k pot into a 250k (not quite but close enough)

**PTChristopher2** · 03-03-2014, 12:06 PM

I am a little lost in the passfan quote above. But,...

>>> Why reverse the terminals? Is the taper different in the other direction?

Yes. As Jim notes, the difference is dramatic for two reasons.

Thumbwheel pots with a log taper are less clearly identified by industrial suppliers as "right" or "left", so a goof is easy to do. Easy to fix too.

Chris

**KirkP** · 03-05-2014, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by DRS

I see Stewmac sells a nifty Schatten tone/volume thumbwheel set up for $36. Maybe a good start. ...

An Eastman rep recommended the Schatten dual tone/volume thumbwheel set as an upgrade for my older AR810CE that lacks a tone control. He also thought I'd like Schatten's audio taper better than the stock volume pot. I haven't gotten around to it yet, because I usually do fine setting the tone at the amp, and I can live without volume swells.