-
Edited title (Yunzhi Diplomacy: Should i be picky ? (Mike, Spook, Yunzhi owners, SOS)
Please guys i need your input:
My order is about to take a good shape but on one of the photos Ms Lora sent me in January i spotted that the side dots were not straight:
I mentioned this to Ms Lora and she said i can be fixed, it is a small job.
But then comes Chinese new year and Yunzhi took off until Feb 15th.
Ms Lora gets back to me yesterday with this strange proposal:
"For your guitar, is that OK making a new one for you? (
)
Could you wait more days?
Cause the worker said it is dificult to redone the dots. or you insist on to redone the dots?"
I answered that of course i'd rather wait, so if it takes a new guitar well let's go for it, i want a NICE guitar, not a sloppy side dots alignment
But of course, since i decided to pay an extra 100$ to choose the wood i ask whether i shall have to choose the woods again.
She then gets back to me :
"I have talked with the boss, and he will try to redo the dots, Let's wait to see if they can fix it."
OK!
Then i get this mail today :
"Plesse check the photos, the boss said we just make it in this way now."
And i look at the new photo, nothing changed:
So basically "The Boss" says: "enough now take it or leave it !", with no discussion possible, kind of, except that i already paid half.
The guitar looks gorgeous otherwise. I can't believe those bloody dots are not aligned.
What would you guys do if you were in my position ?
Would you be picky and refuse ?
Or think that for the price, hey, after all what really counts is the sound and playability ?
I am torn between those two points of view.
Thanks in advance !Last edited by xuoham; 02-22-2014 at 06:09 PM.
-
02-21-2014 11:16 PM
-
Sorry things are not going smoothly my friend. I checked all four of mine.. on three of them the dots are visually aligned.. didn't check with a straight edge but they look about right. On the fourth you can see where some are off. Worse than the one you show there. I'm having some neck side dots replaced on a flat top. They are brass and can't be seen. It is a bit of a production. Drill out the old ones using tubing.. replace the dots.. refinish. Not that easy. Probably not something Yunzhi would do or something you would have done after you get the guitar. Given you've already paid half, I'm not sure what the process might be to reject a guitar. Maybe they would let you apply your deposit to another guitar, maybe not.
It's such a personal thing. It doesn't bother me at all on a guitar in this class. The one of four with the dots off is my favorite one and will remain so. Maybe it will bug you when it's new but after you've played it for awhile, the way it plays and sounds is all that matters and everything else is just a quirk.
If this were on something expensive.. it might be an issue for me. On a Yunzhi, it's almost normal. They are unique in that they hand craft instruments for a very low price. Not sure that's been done before on a factory scale. Don't know that it can work for the long run with them. Truth of the matter is that it probably won't be the only flaw the guitar has. For me success has always been measured in terms of what you get.. minor flaws, major materials and performance. So far that has worked out.. hope it's the same for you.Last edited by Spook410; 02-22-2014 at 01:52 AM.
-
Spook, thank you so much !
What you say sounds like wisdom to me and really helps me see things straight.
So you too have one dot quirk one one guitar !
As you say, i'm sure i won't see the dots problem anymore.
If the guitar sounds and plays great, it really is minor.
It's just that now is the time to claim, afterwards will be too late so i am a bit hectic for sure.
And also slightly paranoid, since i live in Japan and there are presently stronger than usual diplomatic tensions between China and Japan (both part's fault !). And usually Japanese people are really not welcome in many Chinese places.
Ms Lora knows i'm a Frenchie living in Japan, but the workers probably don't.
Since i really can't believe that such a simple thing as aligning dots fails, whereas the rest of the guitar seems pretty straight, i for a second almost started this paranoia : is this on purpose ? lol
Of course not, but the thought crossed my mind.
Anyway, i really appreciate Spook, i feel better now !
Thank you !
-
You took the words right out of my keyboard.
Originally Posted by Spook410
If you are bothered by that kind of minutiae, Yunzhi isn't for you. You are better off buying from a private luthier who takes time on each element. If you want an inexpensive carved instrument that plays beautifully, sounds better than something 5x's the price, and you can see beyond the visual flaws, then Yunzhi is your huckleberry.
Just for a bit of a reality check:
^ That is an Eastman. I've never noticed it before but not a single dot is aligned. My Yunzhi's do have aligned dots, but again, I had never thought about it before.
My Yunzhi has a yellow paint splotch on the side of the neck of one (under the lacquer), and wood filler in the top of another. Even though it is Japanese idea, maybe you can think of it as wabi-sabi? For me I love the flaws. They are those little happy accidents you hear on records that add such charm.
Last edited by spiral; 02-22-2014 at 04:18 AM.
-
No, No ! Wait ! ( lol ) It IS for me ! ( lol ) I am not bothered that much, it's just that i don't know what to expect. Originally Posted by spiral
I'm actually very happy to see it's commonplace!
Spiral, thanks a lot, what a great help from you guys, and what a relief to see those pictures !
Oh you know 侘寂! Yes, definitely, i see what you mean ! Originally Posted by spiral
Yes, Yunzhi is my huckleberry ! (happy to learn a new word) I want it ! ( lol )
I already answered Ms Lora after Spook's decisive help and actually gain a free spare ebony pickguard in the action.
Now that i realize this dot matter is commonplace, i feel a bit like an ass for having asked for a small compensation.
Anyway, you guys save me, and i drink a chilled Asahi "Karakuchi" Super Dry to you !
Cheers !
Paul
-
Actually, I'm glad you brought it up. I never would have noticed.
And don't discount the spare ebony guard.. a good thing to have.
-
Yes, i want to try one pickguard with knobs (for mag pu and transducer) instead of thumbwheels and be able to revert to a clean, undrilled pickguard with the thumbwheels in case the knobs are on the way of my playing. Originally Posted by Spook410
-
That's interesting.. how did you get them to not angle the grain on the back? I like the way yours looks.
-
Ah, it's because i chose from this picture, already bookmatched where the angle is almost flat. Originally Posted by Spook410
The upper right part is the back's lower left part:
The top was this :
Last edited by xuoham; 02-22-2014 at 06:52 AM.
-
I think you're being too picky. After all, you're ordering a Yunzhi partially because of the price, right?
I have seen many high-end Gibson archtops where the split-block inlays are visibly crooked. Including my 1969 Johnny Smith.
-
Xuoham,Very nice.I think it's a fine piece. And it seems you've mimicked Spooks moon on the headstock. How long did it take for the build? Please check your PM.
-
Oh, good to know ! Wow ... really ? Originally Posted by Woody Sound
Thank a lot, i didn't know such a thing could be possible.
Well, ... actually, if i look closely at my 1966 ES335, ... the dots are straight, but a little ... flaky.
Well, TOO picky ... yes and no, ... it's more that i don't know much, and like i said above, only now is the time to express what i want or not. From the moment you acknowledge the pictures there is no return. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
I have the sharp buyer's eyes right now but i'd rather have the open guitarist's ears.
I'm actually not too worried if this is the Yunzhi norm.
It's more that i'd just rather regret opening my mouth than regret not opening it.
I mean, i know that those guys work hard and thanks to them i can have a guitar that otherwise i could not afford (let's say if it were an Eastman 905), i don't want to be a picky asshole, but i would have felt like "coward" not asking for what i can get, i mean this is business after all. I am not rich.
And again, if this is the Yunzhi norm, well, so be it, i am grateful indeed !
Last edited by xuoham; 02-22-2014 at 10:12 AM.
-
Thanks. Yes, it looks a bit like Spook's moon and clouds Originally Posted by Archtop Guy
but it is a Yin Yang disk, pearl/abalone. A bit tacky because over used, but i really like this symbol nevertheless, visually and philosophically. And impersonal enough. There will be some 3mm dots on the fingerboard, pearl and abalone alternated.
The combed hair headstock shape is a misunderstanding from my part, i thought only of a symmetrical one (Eastman AR905) but actually, it's better like this. Lucky.
Only afterwards i noticed that it looks similar to Spook's Avatar. I actually should have copied it !
This cloud and moon definitely is a wonderful logo !
The build started end of November and they took three weeks break for Chinese New Year.
And as everybody says, Ms Lora is great to deal with, friendly, serious, and sometimes makes cute English language neologisms ("it's a smally job").Last edited by xuoham; 02-22-2014 at 07:37 PM.
-
I just sent it to John Archtop Guy but maybe this could be useful for someone so i post it.
My basic spec sheet:
One can see where the combed hair head shape misunderstanding comes from.
So far, except the side dots, everything seems spot on.
Let's see the fingerboard dots.
Can't wait for some new photos !Last edited by xuoham; 02-22-2014 at 06:16 PM.
-
I love this thread. As a builder I must say aligning the side dots is not an uncommon challenge. The tendencies of the drill to wander and the wood grain to lead it astray conspire to spoil even the most careful measuring and marking.
At one company we held serious meetings on the subject--a clear sign that customers had not been happy. The result was standardization by means of a simple jig into which a fretboard is clamped against a steel bar with holes precisely located so as to guide the drill bit to the perfect spot. A jig was required for each scale length that we made. One consultant built the first one which proved accurate and efficient. So I was charged with making the second. I remember going through 2 or 3 of the steel bars before I was happy with it.
In my shop, like most, we still do this by hand. We really try for perfection, but I've found that if the two dots at the 12th fret look good, then you don't notice slight misplacement of the individual dots.
xuoham, You have a beautiful guitar there if you accept it. It will be a test of your ego--whether it may impose it's perfectionism on you or not. It it were me, I know I could put it out of my mind most of the time. But I can imagine those nagging moments when the devil might whisper in my ear, "Couldn't they have at least got the 12th fret right?"
-
Your spec sheet is interesting! Thanks for sharing. Was this something that you came up with in order to clarify things for them throughout the entire process, or is this a standard form they would always have you fill out, etc.?
On side dots: Oh, man... I refuse to start looking through all my guitars to see how the dots align! Groan. (lol.) But crooked split-blocks on the fingerboard or non-symmetrical headstock inlays do get to me; I notice those and have put a guitar back on a store's wall many times because of it. That said, a great playing and sounding guitar would easily override the 'minutiae' of these details for me in the end, just like having a few scratches or dings on a great used guitar would end up being ignored.
Best of everything with your incoming Yunzhi!
-
Just a quick ? Can you special order a bigger neck, say .90 depth at first fret? Also I noticed that they make an acoustic version of the JP880 Eastman. Can they make an electric say neck inset humbucker like the Eastman as well?
Thanks!
-
That really is a discovery for me ! I thought that was the easiest of things, like straight holes for a shelf or something like that ! ( lol ) Originally Posted by kenbennett
Very interesting that a builder actually tells what's going on with those dots !
(Couldn't find any photo of your Benetti from your website)
Maybe Ms Lora's assertion that it was a "smally job" to redo the dots was a bit confusing.
Thank you, i really learned something here
As long as the deal is completed and the guitar sounds and plays good i will be fine and forget about it. Originally Posted by kenbennett
If the guitar doesn't sound good, then i would care even less for the side dots, haha !Last edited by xuoham; 02-22-2014 at 06:14 PM.
-
Me too. I MUCH prefer the flames to go straight across than in a flame down chevron pattern. In fact, I would even prefer a slight angle UP than an angle pointing down. Originally Posted by Spook410
-
No, no standard form, but so many examples from their website (spec don't always match, many incorrect infos) that can be used as a sart. Originally Posted by ooglybong
I did the thing with a graphic editor, after Big Mike's and Spook's recommendations to be as precise as possible.
Even though now i look at it and it could have been better, but the the e-mail ping-pong with Ms Lora did the rest.
(lol ) Originally Posted by ooglybong
Thank You Sir ! Originally Posted by ooglybong
-
Regarding the neck, i don't know, but i wish Big Mike would chime in, i guess he's busy right now. Originally Posted by jads57
He really knows the Yunzhi company the best probably, and his precious advice was not to let them stray too much from what they already know if you want security. Otherwise it may be a bit risky, but it might be OK as well.
If i ever order another one, i might be a bit bolder.
Spook has at least four of them and can really be adventurous, that's great. You should do a search because he got very interesting ones from Yunzhi, and the last one can be said to be a bit adventurous.
For the inset humbuckerwith set neck, just check some of their existing models, there are some.
-
When installing side dots, I use brad point drills in a drill press on the fretboard before it is glued on. Makes it pretty easy to get them in a perfect line without needing special tooling,
Mike
-
When I look on their websight it seems quite confusing to me. They list the same model numerous times w/ different prices. Also they list a JP880 Eastman style Sunburst w/ floater as a 17" instead of the 16" it appears to be.
http://yunzhimusic.en.alibaba.com/pr..._for_sale.html
Then it's the same guitar here at a different price
http://yunzhimusic.en.alibaba.com/pr...zz_Guitar.html
-
Like i said above, there are plenty of errors in the specs, this website is pretty messy, and i guess they use it mainly for attractiveness.
Since they have a 1piece minimum order (unlike most other Chinese makers) they expect you to contact them for more precise information.
Personally, i started by asking about one model and ended up asking price for several different configurations i had in mind, 7 strings, side port, round hole, mahogany, etc ...
-
Really have been busy, recovering from a 3 wiki ong stint with pneumonia and then my wife and I got involved in rescuing a 10 year old dashchound from a kill shelter in North Carolina, she had already been there 6 weeks and was due to be euthanized . The dog is safely with us now and enjoying a new very active life.
Really I should take you to task over the dots being a little misaligned. Really. Everything else about the guitar is gorgeous, it will probably play and sound amazing once you have a tech put your favorite brand of strings on it and set it up to your liking. You get playing it and get that body resonating and every day it will sound better to you. Being quite blunt: you need to have a little sense of adventure when buying from Yunzhi, and they custom built the guitar you requested for How Much ??? My guess is about $1200.00 with woods you hand chose and all ???? You wanted my advice so here it is: be glad it's almost done, write and thank them for the extra pickguard and let the rest go. Maybe next time buy a Gibson that you can't custom order to your specs and pay four times as much for, and wait 2 years for, at least.
Now onto more spiritually enriching things, saving the life of this wonderful old girl, meet my newest family member, Gracie.
Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 02-23-2014 at 09:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
Recommandations for Hollowbodies for $600 and under?
Today, 05:20 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos