Pat Metheny's Guitar on 'Bright Size Life'?

**StevieB** · 01-23-2014, 11:29 AM

Anyone know which model guitar or guitars Pat Metheny played on his first recording back in 1976 'Bright Size Life''? I'm thinking it was his ES-175 but don't know for sure.

**David B** · 01-23-2014, 12:06 PM

It was his 175. Have seen a photo of that trio which I will link to later (I'm on my phone here).

ECM pushed for Dave Holland to play bass on the album (Metheny and Moses went as far as playing through the music at Holland's house). Interesting to think how that music was affected by Jaco's presence.

**StevieB** · 01-23-2014, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by David B

It was his 175. Have seen a photo of that trio which I will link to later (I'm on my phone here).

ECM pushed for Dave Holland to play bass on the album (Metheny and Moses went as far as playing through the music at Holland's house). Interesting to think how that music was affected by Jaco's presence.

Thanks! Yeah with the great Jaco on board, it was more like a 'duet' recording!

**Eric Rowland** · 01-23-2014, 05:35 PM

I seem to remember Pat saying in an interview that he didn't feel he was "ready" to play with a bassist of Holland's stature until the "Question & Answer" recording. Does anyone have any further recollections?

**cosmic gumbo** · 01-23-2014, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by StevieB

Thanks! Yeah with the great Jaco on board, it was more like a 'duet' recording!

You trying to piss off Bob Moses?

**David B** · 01-23-2014, 05:47 PM

From the Jaco Pastorius biography:

"As Moses explains, "Before we made that record, Metheny had already gotten some pressure from ECM not to use Jaco... and since Metheny was, at that point, trying to get some credibility as a jazz player, he was considering Manfred's point...

Moses says that Metheny went as far as having a lengthy rehearsal with Holland just prior to the recording of Bright Size Life. "We went up to Woodstock and played all the music from that album with Dave at his house. After the rehearsal Metheny was still vacillating - "I don't know. It's a jazz album. I should probably use Dave - it's acoustic bass, he's more famous, he's got credibility." And I said to him, "Man, you are crazy if you don't use Jaco. With all due respect to Dave Holland, Jaco blows him away! Your music is twice as alive with this cat. And it's great that it's electric bass. It makes the music 20 times more exciting, more grooving."

**Loobs** · 01-23-2014, 06:48 PM

I think I'd probably prefer that album w/ Dave Holland.

**kris** · 01-24-2014, 04:03 AM

I'heard Pat bought his old es-175 for $100 :-)

**jzucker** · 01-24-2014, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Loobs

I think I'd probably prefer that album w/ Dave Holland.

then you missed the point. GO BACK RIGHT NOW and listen to Bright Size Life.

**djangoles** · 01-24-2014, 08:56 AM

If Bright Size Life was the ONLY thing Metheny ever did...I'd be fine with that.

**jorgemg1984** · 01-24-2014, 09:16 AM

I like his Grenadier Stewart trio much more than any of the others (pastorious moses, haden higgins, holland haynes, sanchez mcbride, etc..). Jaco was essential to that record though... No other player would have made it sound like that even if it's not my cup of teal all the time. I actually find his tone a little thin on that record... And later a little dark. On the live record in Japan (grenadier stewart) I think he finally found a good middle ground.

**jzucker** · 01-24-2014, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Richb

Yeah. Jaco. What can be said that hasn't already been said a million times. What an incredible musician. All that facility but balanced with a truly FEROCIOUS groove that is as good as the greatest black players ever.
If only the deluge of Jaco-inspired speed clones had realized his GROOVE was the lynchpin in his playing...

Without jaco, bright size life is just another guitar trio record. The saddest thing is that metheny didn't do more trio records with jaco.

Dave Holland is one of my favorite bassists EVER and he's got one of the deepest grooves ever and he's a fabulous writer (folks should be studying his tunes which are very modern and he sells them cheaply) but his playing would have changed that record.

As it is, that record changed the guitar which is very cool.

**jaco** · 01-24-2014, 12:40 PM

Was lucky enough to see this trio live in Boston at a club called Poos Pub (something like that) back around '74-'75. It was an amazing experience to say the least. Bright Size Life was an incredible debut as a leader for any musician.

**djangoles** · 01-24-2014, 01:25 PM

**StevieB** · 01-24-2014, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by djangoles

It's always interesting to hear what PM is going to say, thanks for posting.

**Bhagiti** · 01-24-2014, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by David B

It was his 175. Have seen a photo of that trio which I will link to later (I'm on my phone here).

ECM pushed for Dave Holland to play bass on the album (Metheny and Moses went as far as playing through the music at Holland's house). Interesting to think how that music was affected by Jaco's presence.

Would love to see that photo - thanks!

**StevieB** · 01-24-2014, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by StevieB

It's always interesting to hear what PM is going to say, thanks for posting.

Could be the exposure, but it looks to me as if PM fell sleep on the tanning bed.

**ooglybong** · 01-24-2014, 08:11 PM

Is it too early—or would it considered some kind of cop out—for Metheny to go back at this point in time and literally re-record BSL, using all the songs in the same order, etc., using the great Bob Moses, but bring a new bassist onboard, either Dave Holland for acoustic or Steve Swallow in order to keep it electric? I would *dig* hearing either of those guys working that material! And then just go at it from the standpoint of 2014, simply using those songs as a jumping off point for new explorations. Personally, I happen to love the entire album, and it would be a blast to hear Bright Size Life Redux.

**jzucker** · 01-24-2014, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by ooglybong

Is it too early—or would it considered some kind of cop out—for Metheny to go back at this point in time and literally re-record BSL, using all the songs in the same order, etc., using the great Bob Moses, but bring a new bassist onboard, either Dave Holland for acoustic or Steve Swallow in order to keep it electric? I would *dig* hearing either of those guys working that material! And then just go at it from the standpoint of 2014, simply using those songs as a jumping off point for new explorations. Personally, I happen to love the entire album, and it would be a blast to hear Bright Size Life Redux.

I wouldn't want that at all. I like growth and enjoy witnessing what new things unfold as he progresses. I would hate to ask him to play Satin Doll...