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OK. That's just my way of asking what's the best suited archtop for solo jazz guitar. I'm torn between a '59 Reissue ES175 or a Sadowsky Jim Hall. I know what he 175 will do but the Hall has that 'airyness' about it. I know there are plenty more examples/builders these days.
If you were only playing solo, what would you choose?
RIP Joe.
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01-09-2014 06:50 PM
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To answer your question about Joe from what I have heard, I would say, "any of them".
A friend of mine who is a great player and teacher and was very close to Joe for many decades apparently used to get on Joe for playing any and all crap guitars he came across. "God damn it, put that crap down, that has the tonal quality of a ukelele!"
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Agreed. It's a shame Joe's 'tone' was sometimes less than stellar, especially given the performances.
So.... How about some thoughts on an archtop, carved or laminate, peticularly well suited to solo jazz?Last edited by teleboli; 01-09-2014 at 08:57 PM.
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Joe seemed to be more about the music, less about the gear
So I'd say an artcore Ibanez
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helpful......................
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Doubt that it would be anything custom or fancy. He could have done this while we was alive, but choose standard models.
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Good point. However, there's also been an explosion of small builders making phenomenal instruments that weren't so much available prior.
Let me re-phrase this. Joe aside, does anyone play/have played or have heard played a peticular brand/builder/model that they feel is especially well suited to solo jazz guitar?Last edited by teleboli; 01-09-2014 at 10:03 PM.
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My Soloway Swan is my favorite solo jazz guitar I've played but I don't play out solo very often. I'm going to guess Joe would still be playing an ES175 live or might have a high end sig model like the Hall - not because he's picky but because he's Joe Freakin' Pass and some builder out there would convince him to get one built to his specs and then sell it commercially.
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One of the more custom guitars that Joe played was a thin body 175. Probably 1/2" thinner than standard.
But he's obviously played well on everything.
If I were picking a guitar for myself, I'd just play as many as I could and then pick the one that worked best for me.
I think that a guitar like that is much too personal to relay on a bunch of internet opinions, so I wouldn't even ask.
YMMV
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probably whoever paid him the most to play something he thought was a decent guitar.
don't forget that he frequently played a real D'Aquisto for years after the 175 and before his Ibanez deal.
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I don't think Jim D'Aquisto was pleased when Joe Pass let Ibanez copy his D'Aquisto guitar in the 1980's.
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OK this is perverse logic, but here goes. The obvious answer would be a Gibson ES-175, because that's the main guitar he was associated with, in addition to D'Aquisto and Ibanez.
But my answer would be an Epiphone Joe Pass. Back in the day a musician or sports figure could put their name on anything and it would sell, whether they used it or not. But today, especially with YouTube and internet fan sites, there is so much more focus on the exact equipment an artist is using. So to have an endorsement deal means you have to be seen with the product 90% of the time.
I can't offhand think of a major artist (or sports figure) who doesn't use their named model on a regular basis (Slash, Warren Haynes, Zakk Wilde, Noel Gallagher, Sheryl Crow--the list goes on and on).
Therefore I conclude if he kept his contract with Epiphone he would play an Epi JP at least half the time he was touring. He might have a special Elitist model made in Japan or in the good old USA. But IMO the financial incentives to play his endorsed product regularly would be too much for him not to play an Epi JP.
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^^^^^^^^
agree.
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As long as we are playing Fantasy Guitar Slingers, Joe Pass would be playing a Collings Eastside LC Joe Pass Special Edition.
which is everything the Ibanez JP20 should have been but wasn't.
Joe Pass in 1992. Note the placement of the pup at the end of the 20-fret fretboard. Note the 3" depth of the guitar. Note the ebony fretboard (looks like ebony to me). Note the maple neck (looks like maple to me). So, Joe Pass would be playing a version of this today.
I heard Joe Pass live and solo in the Summer of '93 at the Blackstone Hotel in Chicago. He was playing an Ibanez, if my fuzzy memory serves me. I was seated about four rows away from him. It was a small hall. 30 to 40 in the audience. Self-effacing Joe Pass in a beige jacket wise-cracked, "I know you all had to pay to see me but for your money, I sure play a lot of notes."
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I was playing Blues Dues just now driving from work !
At the time of his death he was endorsing Epiphone and the Joe Pass II had actaully just been released a couple of weeks prior.
So logically Id too speculate that he would have stayed with Gibson/Epiphone as an endorser and by now there would have been several generations more of the Epiphone Joe Pass model.
And I also think that (for the money) Gibson would have convinced him to reissue the 1960 or the thinbody ES175 as a Joe Pass signature thingy at the usual stellar price tag
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I bet he would play some new model like "JP200" from Ibanez and there would be also a cheaper model like "JP50" for us to buy..
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If that's what you're really after then my suggestion is to work backwards from you're own personal needs and wants. It always works best that way. Using my own process as an example ...
Originally Posted by teleboli
I know myself well enough to know that I can't get along with a raised pick guard. They get in the way of my picking hand. So that eliminates anything with guard mounted controls. I pick over the neck pickup a lot and I use my nails, so the pickup can't be microphonic and it must be able to be lowered far enough from the strings that I won't make much contact with it. I play a lot of chord melody and I try whenever possible to carry ringing notes over from one chord to the next so I need decent sustain. I don't play with a pick and I never strum so I don't need a percussive sound. I reach over the waist and upper bout and I don't rest my forearm on the body. That makes larger bodies very uncomfortable for me so I don't want to play anything over 16" and not deeper than 3" rims. And on and on.
Work through your own needs point by point like that it it may not tell you which guitar but it will help you to eliminate a to of contenders and then you can choose from what's left.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
There's your answer right above
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Jab, Did he go back to endorsing Gibson after the Ibanez deal and before the Epi deal?
I saw him a few times in the 80s and he was using the Ibanez JP w/the p.u. backed off the neck
That looks like some sort of reissue 175 w/gold hrdwr, and single p.u.
and yeah, that's certainly an ebony board.
I think he only lived a year or two after those vids.
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My personal opinion . . . Joe would have went where the money was. And, if there was no money to be had . . vis-a-vis endorsements . . . Joe would have played anything that was available and stayed in tune. Joe had extreme confidence in his skills and his musicallity. It always seemed to me that for Joe . . . it was never about the guitar . It was always more about the player.
It really doesn't matter too much which guitar Joe would have chosen to use if he was still alive today. Because, at the end of the day .. he'd have still sounded like Joe Pass . . . and I believe he knew that.
I wish I had the honor of having met Joe Pass. I'd love to have been able to sit with him and chat. Discuss thing beyone jazz guitar. He's definitely my kind of person.
There's a guy, who posts once in a while over at TGP. He's a serious historian and had a personal relationship with Joe. I do envy him.
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I had the pleasure of meeting Joe Pass at Seattle's Jazz Alley circa 1993. During a set break he sat down with Brian Nova, a local jazz guitarist I'd known. The following set, Brian performed with Joe on stage. Joe played an ES175 that night. Joe had a great sense of humor, and humbly projected himself as just another kid from the neighborhood...he really knew how to work a room...a consummate professional. Originally Posted by Patrick2
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Eastman AR371 Joe Pass model
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I don't know about that, wintermoon. Something might have been in the works with Gibson in 1992. Sadly, Joe Pass passed away about two years after. I wonder what became of that ES-175 that he played in Germany. Originally Posted by wintermoon
When I saw him in Chicago in the Summer of 1993, he looked visibly tired after the set. I didn't go up to say Hello. Still, he played his heart out. I know enough to leave an artist alone when he wants to be alone; the greatest bugbear of any artist can be overadoring fans. The blond guy seated right next to me was rocking back and forth in his seat and gushing on about how great Joe Pass was and his chord progressions. I didn't mind him at all; it was nice to see someone who wore his love for jazz guitar on his sleeve. He might even be posting here today.
To be in the same small space as Joe Pass, wow, that was a treat.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 01-11-2014 at 12:46 AM.
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In the late 80's I was a staff mixer at Group IV studios in Hollywood. I was fortunate to meet and spend a bit of time with Joe. I mentioned I played and he passed his 175 over to me. He got involved in a conversation with another staff member while I fumbled around for a few minutes. He was gracious enough to say"...sounds good, keep working on it.." It's a moment I'll never ever forget, and I took his advice to heart. 20+ years later I'm still working on it..
A added bonus was he was working with Ella during those sessions and I had a chance to have a cup of coffee with her in the break room. What a thrill that was!
If you check the credits on many of Joe's recordings you will see Group IV listed as the studio. It always cracked me up that Joe would come in with guitar in a gig bag, patch cord and a Polytone. Much has been written positive and negitive regarding Joe's tone, however I can assure you that listening to him play though the Trident desk and "Big Red" monitors in the control room was a life changing experience. His friend and my boss Angel Ballister was usually the engineer, although Dennis Sands did some sessions with him also.
I always wondered where his D'Aquisto ended up-anyone know where that piece of history landed?
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