How much should a guitar be "in tune"

**pingu** · 11-20-2013, 05:50 PM

thick strings really helped me
I couldn't play in tune for years , especially an open D chord

Now with the fat strings all is goodish

**jster** · 11-20-2013, 06:02 PM

I had the Earvana installed on a couple of guitars. I thought they sounded better. I could still find chords that sounded off. But it was definitely better overall. I thought that they closed 2/3 of the gap.

I don't know why, but I definitely think nylon string guitars sound more in tune. Maybe it has something to do with the strings? Anybody have any thoughts on that? Maybe the strings have more elasticity and that makes some difference?

**princeplanet** · 11-25-2013, 12:20 PM

You heard the expression "close enough for jazz"- the fact is it;s just not the guitar that's slightly out, the piano often is, horns are never perfect on every note, and neither is the bass..... Luckily the music is not often static plain chords, like pop or rock, which reveal tuning imperfections quite readily, especially where distortion is involved. Out of tune "power chords" is the absolute worst sound an electric guitar can make, but take that same guitar's tuning and play jazz with it (with a clean tone!), it may be barely noticeably out of tune.

**Engine Swap** · 11-26-2013, 12:12 AM

I've noticed that if the string slots at the nut aren't deep enough, it can really throw off the intonation. I had a guitar that would tune up fine at the 12 fret, but be out of tune at various points on the neck, especially between the nut and the 5th fret. I invested in a good set of nut files and carefully filed the slots. Made all the difference in the world. Ended up doing this on all my guitars and noticed a big improvement with both intonation and playability.

**edspyhill01** · 12-07-2013, 12:40 AM

However your guitar is tuned, make sure the other guitars and the bass are tuned the exact SAME way string for string. If you play with a keyboard player - oops, now you need to really tune your guitar. Spring for an electronic tuner. Have your guitar set up by a professional. Very, very few people have perfect pitch. I don't and I bet you don't. Tune with a tuner. In fact tune to concert pitch every time you practice. Only then you'll realize your guitar might need the G-String 1 or 2 cents flat, like one of my classical guitars. I played on a classical guitar orchestra and every single person swore they had perfect pitch. None of them did. Guitars I & II sounded as sour as 6 guitars can sound. Ed

**jorgemg1984** · 12-07-2013, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by edspyhill01

However your guitar is tuned, make sure the other guitars and the bass are tuned the exact SAME way string for string. If you play with a keyboard player - oops, now you need to really tune your guitar. Spring for an electronic tuner. Have your guitar set up by a professional. Very, very few people have perfect pitch. I don't and I bet you don't. Tune with a tuner. In fact tune to concert pitch every time you practice. Only then you'll realize your guitar might need the G-String 1 or 2 cents flat, like one of my classical guitars. I played on a classical guitar orchestra and every single person swore they had perfect pitch. None of them did. Guitars I & II sounded as sour as 6 guitars can sound. Ed

You really need to tune your guitar with or without a keyboard... The presence of a keyboard (or a piano) does not make you need to tune more the guitar. And of course ideally tuning is the same string for string...

Perfect pitch is not a black and white science. It has several shades of grey... some guys have it only on one instrument. Others have only for some notes. Others have it some days and not on other days. Some guys have it all days on all instruments but it's not accurate enough to say the difference between 441 and 440. Others have it so strong they can tell this difference...

The only caution you must have with tuning is when a piano (or other fixed tuning instrument) is present. Then it's wise to check the A frequency (442 is common these days) and have a tuner that can adjust to this... If you have good ears you can do it without a tuner, I do it sometimes (horns and double bass do it all the time). Just ask an A to the piano player and go from there.. you don't need perfect pitch, it's easy to hear the difference between 440 and 442.

**edspyhill01** · 12-07-2013, 11:33 AM

Here is an alternate way to tune by ear from the Guild of American Luthiers. Ed

http://www.stagepass.com/tuning.html

**lpdeluxe** · 12-07-2013, 12:08 PM

My experience has been that it is better if everyone shares the same tuner. I have taken the stage with other guitarists who use their own electronic tuner, and sometimes the results are discordant due to differences in the tuners.

**edh** · 12-08-2013, 03:46 AM

@jorgemg1984 or anybody else that knows. Why is 442 the common these days?

Before getting a tuner I used a fork(A-440). I still tune to A-440.

**jorgemg1984** · 12-08-2013, 04:47 AM

No idea... Although I think I have read / heard some theories. Probably just a fashion

**Gertrude Moser** · 12-09-2013, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by AlainJazz

I'm very very curious about this too. Sounds too good to be true.

Don't forget, that nut will make you that much out of tune with other instruments that don't have the same!

**Gertrude Moser** · 12-09-2013, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by kamlapati

Not an exact answer to your question, but related...

Back when I was a classical student one of my teachers told me that I should tune for each song, to optimize for the key and the chord that you wanted to sound sweetest.

To answer in detail, start reading here, and dig deeper.

Musical Temperament

And that's how the "Suite" was born. Lutes and harpsichords (which were not tuned to equal temperament) would be tuned to favor a specific key, and then the performer would play several pieces in that key to avoid re-tuning for each piece. Eventually composers (Froberger being the first) started writing a group of related pieces to be specifically played together.

**Alder Statesman** · 12-09-2013, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by spiral

A guitar is an imperfect instrument. The math doesn't work out at exact intervals for dividing tones but the guitar has regular and equal divisions for all strings. If you get a good tuner and try fretting a string at every interval you'll see it is in the ballpark up and down the neck but nothing is pitch perfect. This is what gives guitar its charm and/or big sound. A book i recently read (Guitar Zero) said that some musicians will tune to a specific fret just to get one specific chord in tune when recording.

If you want to visualize how a perfectly tuned guitar would look check out a true tempered tuning guitar:
Attachment 9520

I am trying to find an article from Classical Guitar in the late 90's. There was a classical guitar duo who were touring with a pair of concert guitars with staggered frets. They were soemthing to see.

While looking, I found this article online: http://www.doolinguitars.com/intonat...tonation4.html

**edspyhill01** · 12-09-2013, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Gertrude Moser

Don't forget, that nut will make you that much out of tune with other instruments that don't have the same!

I've grown to prefer guitars with a zero-fret. They have a different feel when playing in open position and open notes sound much better. Ed

**Gibouille** · 12-10-2013, 06:24 AM

Let me reformulate my question.

I'm aware that in equal temperament no interval except octaves are truly in tune.

Now If I were to try a guitar in a shop an I want to make sure it's "as close to tune as can be reasonably expected"

I use the tuner on fret zero and twelve on each string and make sure it's the same note.

That is all ?

It can't be avoided that String E in fifth fret doesn't exactly sound like open A ?

And also as long as fret zero and fret twelve are one exact octave on each string there is no point goint to a luthier for a setup ?