Advice about acoustic arch top restoration: who's good, cost, worth it?

**spiral** · 11-04-2013, 03:03 PM

Hi. I found a possible "deal" on an L5. It looks like it has a fair bit of external damage and I haven't seen it in person to know why kind of structural condition it is in. I'm just dipping my toe in the water to decide if it is even worth pursuing as a restoration from a cost and "is it worth it" perspective. I really would want it as a player but would be concerned about "ruining" the value for someone else.

So my questions are:

Can anyone recommend a good luthier for restorations, preferably one that has a few archtops under their belt, and has reasonable rates
What is a ballpark price for a lacquer strip and refinish on a blonde archtop?
Has anyone had an acoustic archtop restored?
Does a restoration subtract from the value of an L5 if it is in a state of disrepair?

thanks!

**Jabberwocky** · 11-04-2013, 03:28 PM

Mike Lennon of The Apprentice Shop, Tucson, Arizona. Mike did a fantastic job of a 1939 Super 400 found in a sorry state by Bob Martin. You should see the miracle Mike wrought on it. http://bobmartin1111.com/Super400/

A guitar in a state of disrepair is practically worthless as an instrument hence it will have no collector's value unless it were one of a kind. Any restoration work done to make it playable and as close to what it was originally with the correct materials and finishing will only enhance its current value.

Oh yes, also Cris Mirabella in New York. Otto Ambrosio in Providence, Rhode Island.

**Jabberwocky** · 11-04-2013, 03:42 PM

My hunch is that a lacquer strip and re-finish will cost between $800 and $1000. New frets and a fretboard re-planing is about $300. Neck resets run from $300 to $600. Cleating of soundboard cracks, tightening of braces and other stuff may be another $300 to $500.

I think you will be looking at about a $1500 to $2000 bill to completely restore it, assuming no other bits of nastiness like cracked back or rim or neck, broken truss rod, etc.

Is it worth it? It depends on the vintage of your L-5 and at what price you score it for.

Rule of thumb: Any re-finish takes off 50% of current market value of an instrument in the same condition but without a re-finish.

**rpguitar** · 11-04-2013, 05:25 PM

Is it a basket case that literally can't be played, or is it just ugly because it's worn to death? Sure would like to see it and hear more about it... I promise I am not going to swoop down on it (I have too many L-5s already!).

PM if interested.

**JSanta** · 11-05-2013, 08:33 AM

There is a gentleman named Jim Cunningham here in MD that I have seen work wonders on many guitars. My instructor had a pre WWII Gibson flattop with a massive crack running along the back of the guitar (the previous owner actually used duct tape to adhere it together), and when it got back form his shop, you would never have known it was ever cracked. Brilliant work.

**spiral** · 11-08-2013, 12:55 AM

I can finally pull the curtain back on this bit of intrigue. I found this 1957 L5 on Chicago's Craigslist and it looked like it was in rough shape but I thought I could buy it for $1k, then have it restored and have a nice player. The pawn shop started the price at $6k, then it dropped to $4k and I said i would have to get a restoration estimate and more photos. To be totally fair to the pawn shop, the guy i talked to was very honest, really nice, and sent very detailed photos right away. I would have gladly made a reasonable offer to them had the guitar been worth saving.

So I got advice from Jabberwocky and RPGuitar who were very helpful (thanks to you both). I also called Aaron Cowles' shop and spoke to Ed Miller who is currently running Aaron's shop while Aaron battles some medical problems. Ed was extremely detailed and has a long Kalamazoo / Gibson history. He said he could save it but it would never look "as new". When you see the photos you will understand why:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11033...45651195175329

I was looking forward to saving it from the clutches of death but sadly I'm not the guy for the job. Thanks to JSanta, Jabberwocky, and RPGuitar for the advice! It was a fun exploration.

**wintermoon** · 11-08-2013, 01:20 AM

your 1K offer was about right.
this one's about as rough as they come. the tailpiece and tuners are worth around $500 provided the tuners still work.
the actual guitar maybe another $500.
could possibly be restored as a players guitar by a luthier that might keep it for himself as a labor of love.
money isn't everything, but in this case too many hours of work needed to consider investing in to keep for most folks unless it's a D.I.Y. project...

**rpguitar** · 11-08-2013, 01:26 AM

It's really sad.

**spiral** · 11-08-2013, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

your 1K offer was about right.
this one's about as rough as they come. the tailpiece and tuners are worth around $500 provided the tuners still work.
the actual guitar maybe another $500.
could possibly be restored as a players guitar by a luthier that might keep it for himself as a labor of love.
money isn't everything, but in this case too many hours of work needed to consider investing in to keep for most folks unless it's a D.I.Y. project...

The dings in the top, missing headstock binding, and frayed top crack were the deal-breakers for me. I wanted to keep it blonde (and Ed pointed out it was likely labelled as such). His suggestion was to do it as a sunburst to hide the splints and wounds. He also said he was interested in the challenge and he could get it back to playing condition with no problem. I'd rather put $5k into a pristine L7 or a new Campellone. I loved talking to so many knowledgeable people though.

It's at Pawn King Portage if anyone wants it!

**fws6** · 11-08-2013, 05:23 AM

Well chiming in very late here but just for the record my 2 cts:

Any restauration project: play it first. It is NEVER worthwhile to put money and a lot of time time/trouble into any restauration unless you really like the sound and decide you will end up with a definative keeper.

All other restauration projects are money pits

Id say a 57 L5 in fine condition is worth 6k. A completely refinned / restored on like 3500

The restoration will be much more expensive than the really optimistic prices mentioned above, especially if you go to someone like Mirabella. I mean, his work is top notch but he also charges for that. Fine for a 40k Dangelico not realistic for this one.

This should go down in price, and will only be worthwhile to restore by someone who is skilled enough to do (a lot of) the work by himself.

**spiral** · 11-08-2013, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by fws6

play it first.
[...]
The restoration will be much more expensive than the really optimistic prices mentioned above

Thanks for the thoughts. The guitar was in Indiana so i wasn't going to drive there until i knew restoration was a financial or pragmatic option. The only thing worse than driving in Chicago is going to Indiana to see a crumbling L5.

Also the numbers above was a real estimate from Ed Miller. I was going to offer $1k (if it wasn't trashed) for the guitar and $3-4k for the rebuild with him. So for $5k i'd rather have a Campellone or L7 w/ Fairy Dust Sparkle finish (very rare!). I have paid for neck resets on guitars that weren't worth it just to keep them working and into the hands of other players.

BTW if you happen to see a blonde L5 non-cutaway from the 50's I would be very interested to know about it via PM.

**rpguitar** · 11-08-2013, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by spiral

The only thing worse than driving in Chicago is going to Indiana to see a crumbling L5.

Unless Wes is the one playing it.

(He was from Indianapolis)

BTW there were very few blonde non-cuts in the 50s, but plenty in the post-war 40s.

**spiral** · 11-08-2013, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

Unless Wes is the one playing it.

(He was from Indianapolis)

Since he is dead that would be even scarier!

**gcb** · 11-08-2013, 07:32 PM

For U$S 1000 If it is playable I would buy that guitar as is, clean it, put a new set of strings and just enjoy owning and playing it...Regretfully I have already ordered an archtop from Yunzhi and don´t have the possibility to acquire another guitar. Because IMHO, irrespective of how trashed it is, it still is an original L5!!!!! How about asking for some clips to check how it sounds?

**miken** · 11-09-2013, 11:36 AM

There is a really great repair shop in Milwaukee. Rauen Guitars, Denny Rauen is well known and highly respected. You might want to check out his website, I'm sure that you will be impressed with his work and client list. I have a had a few minor things done there and been very happy, he is a super nice guy and very knowledgable. And, it's an 1 1/2 from Chicago. I think that a restoration like this would be right up his alley.

TH · 11-20-2013, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by spiral

What do think about a restoration on this L5? Looks like it was a cutaway originally ... then they made it a cutaway.

Advice about acoustic arch top restoration: who's good, cost, worth it?-_57-jpg

Advice about acoustic arch top restoration: who's good, cost, worth it?-_57-jpg

Ah yes, I heard about these. Gibson was really excited when the Steinbergers came out, made the L-berger. Looks in good shape too!
David

**spiral** · 11-20-2013, 06:14 PM

What do think about a restoration on this L5? Looks like it was a cutaway originally ... then they made it a cutaway.

Advice about acoustic arch top restoration: who's good, cost, worth it?-_57-jpg

**Jabberwocky** · 11-24-2013, 03:29 PM

It could make a very nice neck for a planker. Hand it to one of those Les Paul replica makers and let him have a go at it. Yeah, a 25.5" scale length 1959 Les Paul copy with a genuine L5 neck. How bad could it possibly sound?

Somewhere out there, there could be an L-5 with a broken neck. I won't give up on it. Save these parts because one never knows. At worst, you would have a one of a kind FrankenFive.