'40s Gibson L-7

[floatingpickup]

I bought a reissue Dearmond pickup, a new pickguard to cut out, a Tapastring end pin jack thing, and some knobs and controls with the intention of installing the Dearmond on my L7 one these days, as soon as I find a good luthier to take it on, or steel up my nerves to drill a tiny hole or two (eek!) in the side of the neck to install the mounting rod.

Any plans to go electric with your lovely L7, Keith? (Probably not, or you would have just bought something with a pickup.)

I've had mine for a few years, and now I'm on a quest to sound like Chris Flory on "City Life"!

We'll see about that...

My goal was to have at least one non-amplified, non-cutaway Archtop. Having said that, I have a few vintage De'Armond pickups in the drawer and one of those would probably sound great on the L7. We'll see how I feel down the road. I need to replace the deteriorating pickguard first.
Keith

[wintermoon]

Don't you have a Syle B and maybe a Campelone?

Aside from the late 20s early 30s my favorite Gibson era for acoustic archtops is the immediate post war period. Of course there are exceptions to the rule in all eras, but in general I find them to be consistently louder and fuller sounding for some reason.
Maybe it's the rosewood boards.....

[floatingpickup]

Don't you have a Syle B and maybe a Campelone?

Aside from the late 20s early 30s my favorite Gibson era for acoustic archtops is the immediate post war period. Of course there are exceptions to the rule in all eras, but in general I find them to be consistently louder and fuller sounding for some reason.
Maybe it's the rosewood boards.....

Wintermoon:

I sold the Style B a few years ago. I have four other acoustic archtops right now (Gibson L5C, Benedetto Fratello, Campellone Special, Unger American Legend 7 string) all with floating pickups. The L5C (1963) is a fairly traditional sounding guitar, while the others sound more "modern" to me. Those four are all great guitars, but I have had the bug lately for an old non-cut guitar without a pickup. This L7 was exactly what I was thinking of. I think guitars were built more for volume in that era and I wanted to have one that I can play in a totally acoustic setting once in a while.

My Style B was beautiful and played very well, but did not have as big an acoustic voice as other D'Angelicos that I have played. Mine seemed to be built a little "heavy" with a fairly thick top. Maybe that was why it sounded so good when amplified with a De'Armond pickup, but it was not too loud acoustically.

Until now, I think the best sounding acoustic archtop I ever owned was a mid 1940's Epiphone Deluxe. Interestingly, my brother has several vintage and newer high end archtops, and his best sounding one is also an Epiphone Deluxe from the 1930's. I really miss my Epiphone but I think the L7 is close to that one.

Keith

[Easy2grasp]

I have had a blonde 1947 L7 for sale for about a year at a decent price ($3000). It is on Reverb and has been hanging at a local shop on consignment for about a year. They have a 25% consignment fee so the price there is $4000. It has a great woody sound and a Kent Armstrong floating pick up. I think people are hesitant to buy it because it is a non cutaway. I have had lots of nibbles at the shop, but no one is biting.

When I bought it, I also watched it hang on a hook on consignment at a different shop for about a year before I took pity on it and caved. It is totally cool but it would be totally awesome if it was a cutaway.

I am seriously considering having a luthier convert it into a cutaway. But I am torn because I am by nature a preservationist. I have a few guitars from the '50's and I see myself as somewhat of a curator, keeping these vintage instruments intact for future enthusiasts. I even spent $500 to buy a vintage correct zigzag tailpiece for my '57 ES175. It had the wrong tailpiece on it when I bought it.

I think I might pull it back into my collection for a while if it was a cutaway, but also I think it would be more desirable to a buyer, also.

I know I wouldn't be the first guy in the world to do this to a vintage instrument. When I think about it I feel hesitant, even though I can afford to have it done. I would like the forum to weigh in on this. Thanks in advance.
Ted

[Hammertone]

If you do convert it:
-you'll end up with a guitar that Gibson never made (Florentine cutaway L-7C);
-you will spend considerable funds to get it done properly;
-you will never recover the funds spent on the conversion;
-you will have reduced its value considerably;
-unless it's done really well, it will look odd.

I think your best bet is to trade it for a similar cutaway archtop guitar.
If your goal is specifically to have an L-7C, that may take a bit of doing.
But there are lots of L-7C and other great carved-top, cutaway archtops out there.

Selling it and then buying a carved-top, cutaway archtop is a good move as well. However, it does
take time to sell guitars like this without taking a bath. If you consign it, you'll be giving up 15-25%
to the consignment shop (rates vary widely) - that may or may not matter to you.

If you just want a nice carved-top, cutaway guitar with a floating pickup, that certainly opens up the field.
Do you have any specific ideas about you want in a cutaway archtop?

[KirkP]

I occasionally see cutaway mods that seem to have been expertly done with beautiful results, such as this one:
1937 Gibson L-5
If expertly done, it might increase the value of the instrument somewhat, but not nearly enough to recover the cost of the mod. If I were in your shoes I might drop the price till it sells then buy a guitar with a cutaway if that's what I really wanted. Do you have a quote for the mod?

[Stringswinger]

I do not think the mods will increase the value at all. In fact the converse is more likely. Don't do it!

Bad karma if you do.

[rlrhett]

Nobody buys a 1947 L7 because they are in the market generally for a nice archtop and that one seemed OK. "Oh look, there is vintage Gibson from the golden age of Gibson guitars... but no cutaway. If only someone would hack that up, then I would be interested."

If you want a nice archtop with a woody sound, and you don't give a rat's a$$ about any vintage value, <$2500 will get you what you want new. Cutaway or no cutaway, you choose. Nobody is going to pay you more than that for a hacked up L7. The only person going to pay $3K-$4K for an L7 is someone who WANTS an L7.

You have an L7. They are not as popular or as in demand as an L5. It won't sell until the right person comes along. But there is nothing you can do to turn it into an L5.

I can't imagine a reputable luthier willing to take on that work for less than $1,500, and most would probably turn you away. Even if they didn't care about the vintage value of that guitar, it would be a huge risk for them that you would suddenly realize your mistake and tell everybody that they ruined your guitar. So my guess is that if you found someone to do it they would simultaneously charge you $1,500 and drop the value of the guitar $1,500. Of course you might find a Yahoo who will do it for $500 and drop the value of the guitar by $2,500. The guitar would still probably take a year to sell, and you get to feel like you destroyed a piece of art.

So, my $.02 is: no, not a good idea.

[Burrellesque]

Someone looking for a late 40's L-7N wants that guitar as is, and that's your customer.
The closer to original the more it is worth up to the maximum value for a late 40's L-7N.

No one wants a vintage instrument thats been modified to that extent and never existed in the first place. I think the customer that does is very rare.

[docbop]

Howard Robert will say why not... add a cutaway above and below the neck, that get some bondo and reshape the neck then the guitar will be famous. Well if you're Howard Roberts it will be famous.

I'm not a collector type, but if I had other guitars with cutaways why take such a drastic measure on a vintage instrument. It will kill the value of the guitar no matter how well the job is done. I think it a really cool guitar, it's a little out of my price range or I'd buy it from you, if you do mod it then it will drop to my range.

So I wouldn't do it if mine I'd just play a different guitar when I need upper access.

[rpguitar]

"I see myself as somewhat of a curator, keeping these vintage instruments intact for future enthusiasts."

Then, just don't... What's it going to accomplish - 4, 5 notes with less effort? Or is it the look? If the latter, sell it and buy an L-7C. Pretty guitar, BTW.

[Woody Sound]

Don't do it. I did a quick internet scan and found some L7s in the low-to-mid $2k range. Yes some are asking $3k+-ish, but those are still sitting there. Maybe your price is too high, especially considering the chopped up pickguard? If you pay enough to alter the guitar properly you will lose money.

[hans halmackenreuter]

I don't miss a cutaway at all when I play my ES-125. I think you should leave it.

In don't have a non-cutaway guitar but I'd love to have one, because I never play on the higher register and I don't think the guitar really sounds good in the cutaway-area. Perhaps if you need a singing saw in a blues context than the cutaway area comes in handy.

I have the same opinion when it comes to violins. If you listen to pieces from Louis Spohr than you will likely hear more parts where the violin-solo isn't always playing in the higher register but in the lower - and the violin does sound beautiful in the lower register, too. A quality which is often overlooked. And in jazz guitar, players may sometimes forget the enjoyable quality for the listeners when hearing the lower sounds of the jazz guitar.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Also, as this is an acoustic instrument, I would think that adding a cutaway could significantly alter the vibrations and therefore the sound of the guitar, no?

[floatingpickup]

I would never do that. It will never look right and the value will be significantly reduced. I recently bought a 1947 L7 because I specifically wanted a non-cutaway. There is something special about those guitars. I think the problem is your asking price. My advice is to reduce your price and move the guitar on to someone who will cherish it. Then you can go shopping for something that is more to your liking.
Keith

[diminix]

I know I wouldn't be the first guy in the world to do this to a vintage instrument.

Robert

[Easy2grasp]

Thanks everyone for your input. I agree it would be totally bad karma now. It was just some late night musings I guess. I have had so much good karma with my recent guitar acquisitions (Thank you George Benson). I will wait for the right buyer and put a notice on the For Sale thread as suggested. The guitar is a little rough in some spots due to an earlier Kiesel pick up whose pots were clipped to the lower f hole. And the pick guard is a replacement, so I had no problem with mounting the volume knob there and retained the Kiesel chicken head knob. I will post it here and adjust the price. In the meantime here is the Reverb link Gibson L-7 1947 Blonde | Reverb

BTW Does anyone know how why my pictures here upload in a seemingly random rotation of the photo?

Ted

[rio]

If you are going to play it, need the cutaway, won't sell it/don't mind devaluing the instrument and putting out money that you will not get back and have someone in mind that can do a good job then go for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[BigMikeinNJ]

Don't do it...

Regardless of whatever the reason it has not sold yet (SLOW FLAT MARKET for sellers) the value of that guitar is it's originality. There's a lot of cats that really think a non-cutaway has a better tone, way better tone in fact. Don't mess with it, it'll never be the same.

From my experiences here, when I download iPhone photos direct from my phone the pictures are too large to be shown in their original direction and the bb software rotates them. I get around that, when I remember, by posting them on Facebook first, copying those "dumbed down" photos to my iPhone by pushing my finger on the image and "save photo" - or from my iMac desktop I click on the posted photo and drag and drop that "dumbed down" photo to my desktop and then post it here. Works like a charm.

[Dennis D]

As far as specifics and prices, if I understood this correctly it's on consignment at a local store for $4000. That price just isn't happening, MHO.
So I'd either reduce that price, or just go pick it up. The store doesn't necessarily care whether the price they ask for it is wrong or unrealistic, they have nothing invested in it but a hook on a wall.
And as far as the Reverb price, you are probably close, but it does need some attention. So I'd be prepared to get offers below that price.
But all in all, the advice here is correct - - don't add a cutaway to it -- - ' cause if you don't like your results so far, you sure as heck won't like them after you've cut it, and then tried to recoup those costs.

Good luck !

[hotpepper01]

Dont do it. Sell the non cutaway and buy another nice L7C instead. May be as cost effective and iit would keep this lovely L7 non cutaway preserved for the future.

[Thecytochromec]

For what it's worth, it's been done before.



Whit Smith's 1946 L-5 was a "bandsaw cutaway" and he plays the living hell out of the thing. Granted, he found it and restored it, he didn't do the cutaway himself.

**edit - I've been beaten to the punch by others!

Whit Smith: Vintage Swing and Jazz Guitarist

[Socraticaster]

I kinda think it would be cool with a cutaway and a CC pickup.

[Socraticaster]

Also, given that the guitar already has a side jack installed, it really isn't a pristine vintage example anymore. That boat has sailed - if you want a cutaway, go for it. I know Lay's in Akron has done that sort of thing before. I doubt it would cost more than 4 or 5 hundred.

[deacon Mark]

This guitar to me is worth maybe 3k$ with a good dealer. Private selling you can get $2500 maybe but would for $2200 reasonably quick. Making it a cutaway does zero for guitar, I would refuse to modify even if paid huge $$. This is a 40s blond Gibson, not the cream of the crop but a proven winner. They said that about cheap style A D'angelico in the 1980s, but most would love to have an original D'angelico, so leave it alone buy what you want.

If you need a cutaway PM me I have something you might like not an L7. Elferink