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Originally Posted by newsense
For some reason, I have just caught myself checking out this amp and reading three reviews (I really should start worrying about the deadline by now). Anyway, thanks for the pointer -- it would never have occurred to me to consider this amp. Yet it seems to be well received and does a have a number of useful features in addition to a good-sounding clean channel (i.e. independent master volume, a three-band EQ plus a mid-boost, etc. and an FX loop). A tad heavy maybe... Originally Posted by newsense
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10-17-2013 06:31 AM
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Oooh, nice! Originally Posted by jazzbow
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Jazzbow - thanks for flagging this one. Originally Posted by jazzbow
I have also frequently considered this option - it is certainly well specified, and I think PMT still have some in stock in the UK, but I have read a number of bad reviews which have discouraged me. However, as they say, one man's meat is another man's poison, (e.g. everyone gives the HT-5R rave reviews, but i is not to my taste) so I haven't yet totally dismissed the Windsor from my possibles list, - but I would definitely have to try before buying.
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..definitely not one you can throw on the bus ! Originally Posted by palindrome
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I use a Fender Super Champ X2 as my home/bedroom amp or my lightweight grab & go. I do also have a Princeton Reverb and it gets close to that tone. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
So I'd recommend a look at a SCX2 as they can be found for cheap on the used market.
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I'm telling you a Fender Mustang amp. Great cleans (or dirt if you want it) and any volume. 15 watts, heck even 5 watts of tube amp is too much volume in bedroom.
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Originally Posted by Woody Sound 
Keep in mind that part of a big full sound is a big speaker moving a large area of air.
The Ibanez Wholetone uses a 15" speaker so there's that option. I have one and, IMO, it sounds great, with notable fullness even a lower volumes (given its speaker, I would imagine). Originally Posted by palindrome
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I have one of these, too. 1/10 of a watt, pretty amazing. Great-sounding reverb, too. Originally Posted by Flat
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For tubes anything with a well designed gain / master should work... Most SS amps tend to be less sensitive on the volume department to sound good so they should be a good solution.
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Get a princeton! Best sound period!
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vox pathfinder15 r
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Hello Palindrome,
This seems to be a conundrum for guitarists because they cannot get past thoughts of guitar amplifiers.
You never really hear mention of audiophiles suffering tinnitus or hearing loss but in guitarists it is all too common.
Working backwards, a set of cheap monitors such as Logitech Z2300 are THX certified and are 200w rated and often on the bay.
It's very easy to run them too loud for your hearing. A DBX 166xs rack compressor/limiter/gate is available for about £150 in UK and less in the US. This controls your levels.
A Hughes and Kettner 18w Tubemeister head can provide valve sounds without a cab via it's xlr out and Red Box. I also run direct into a Boss Combo Drive pedal in bypass via the same rig.
The whole notion of any guitar amp being suitable for anything other than gigging is rubbish.
I run amp, Boss pedal, or direct into a small Mackie mixer. I have the DBX compressor and a Lexicon MX400 in the aux send and this takes care of reverb and level control. The mix runs to monitors and back into the PC recording inputs.
Look after your hearing
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PMT have sold out of 'em mate! Originally Posted by newsense
Try these fellers in Essex http://www.musicwarehouse.co.uk/peav...amplifier.html
I was going for one of these Peaveys until Thomann.de reduced the price of the Ampeg GVT15, it was just better value for money.
For the cash it's great, it powers down to 7.5 watts and can be turned down, but it's quite boomy and that would piss off people in the other room.
The souped up Bugera V5 looks really cool but works out at the same price as the GVT.
The reason I decided on a old style single channel amp was down to the HT-5R! All those controls just for overdrive! And a piddly 'Tone' contol for the clean channel, oh dear.
Since buying the Ampeg and using the 'Baxendale' tone controls I find the HT-5R somewhat pale in comparison.
So the Ampeg GVT5 might be the one? It doesn't have the mid control, but that just boosts the gain stage, a pedal can do that.
The Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister was on my list but it is way too expensive, but for a gigging musician it would be a really useful tool, too much for my needs. But that 5 watter version might be up your street...
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I would like to share some of my experience. Hope it helps.
I have a Mesa Mark IV combo. You can get a good clean sound with low volume. A good Jazz sound but not as good as Polytone mini brute II IMHO.
I also plug in the guitar directly to a MOTU traveler which connects to Mackie HR824.
This setup always give me very good jazzy clean sound (**) with lots of details with all of my guitar and bass at very low volume.
Detail to the level that you can hear some phase problem with humbucker pickups. ( as compare to the pure single coil tone). Personally, I felt this setup is comparable with Polytone MB II. Not to mention you won't have those hum and buzz that a tube amp or the polytone will always have. It is as clean or cleaner than a AI Clarus. You can hear 100% dynamics from the guitar pickup.
(**) Note: The pickup on the guitar fully determine the sound. A hard rock pickup will not sound jazzy.
One thing to note is to use a studio monitor which can get down to low frequency.
A 5" or 6.5" may not cut it. 8" or bigger woofer is needed.
Read the spec to make sure it can go down to 50Hz or lower at -3dB.
Otherwise it will sound thin. For your reference, this Mackie goes down to 38Hz at -3dB.
2.1 setup (with subwoofer) can do fine if you are space limited.
My monitor is position at ear level.
The newer MOTU has builtin reverb, EQ and compressor. Mine doesn't have any of these. The tone knob on the guitar does all the EQ job.
Preamp gain needs to be set to the right gain level, otherwise will get distortion that you don't want.
After all, these A/D D/A are mainly built for microphone level and line level.
About 20 yrs ago, I plugged my electric guitar (a hohner headless) into a Tascam mixer. That sounded very thin.
And the tone knob on the guitar doesn't behave like a tone knob.
For some reason, the MOTU works really well with this hohner and my other guitars, too.
My guess is the "impedance" doesn't match.
About using a guitar amp at low volume: I would say a lot of guitar speakers doesn't sound good at low volume. It has to get to a certain level for it to sound good. I have a modified 1x12 Marshall Cab (originally 1x10) with a G12T-75.
For clean Jazz sound, amp volume (AI Clarus) has to turn up to a certain point to sound full. I would say the Mesa Mark IV does a better job at low volume than this AI+Marshall setup.
About the Mesa Express+, I tried one. The 5w,15w,25w is not going to help you get a full sound at low volume. The speaker is the determine factor. In fact the higher the wattage, the bigger the headroom for you to get a clean dynamic sound at low volume. Find a speaker (or combo) that can sound good to you at low volume.
Each method has its pros and cons.
I hope you find a solution that fits you.
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First of all, thanks for all those responses. There is hope that my current agony over amps will soon give way to an agony over studio monitors.
I really appreciate the input r_cc_c has provided. Has made me realize that I will have to earmark _at least_ a thousand bucks for studio monitors, and has confirmed my suspicion that higher-wattage amps may sometimes make for better sound at low volumes if they meet other requirements, as evidenced by the example of his Mesa Mark IV (in confirmation to what I have read about the Mark V). Actually I continue to be fascinated by newsense’s statement that he can use his Bugera V22 “up to about 4 on both the channel and master volumes” without getting on his neighbors’ nerves. And an intermediate example between those two amps in terms of price which, by all accounts, seems to sound good at low volumes would be the Koch Twintone.
Realizing that r_cc_c makes a big point of speakers, I will probably try to check out in greater detail what the speakers these three amps have in common. And I did read elsewhere (from a source which my highly flexible common sense told me was credible) that Fender speakers tend to be more aggressive than Bugera ones at low volumes. It would also be interesting to know what additional requirements might be involved. Another pretty logical thought I picked up from at least two confidence-inspiring sources was that low-volume performance will depend a lot on the extent to which an amp relies on its preamp versus power stage for its typical sound (i.e. an amp that draws a lot of its character from the power stage will obviously not sound good at low volumes). And incidentally (although I know nothing about tubes and feel overawed by the arcane science governing this aspect of the story), all amps reported to sound good at low volumes seem have some E-xxx kind of power tubes rather than the much-commended 6V6 ones. Note that any of my opinions about specific tubes would be as reliable as statements about virgo and pisces compatibility, but they have made me prejudiced about the TSA15 over the last few days.
This thread has also made it clearer to me that power-stage attenuation may not be what I am really looking for. Quite some posters have indicated that their specific low-wattage amps are way too loud for bedroom levels, and perhaps this is just the flip side of the argument that higher wattage does not always involve greater incompatibility with low volumes. Unfortunately, I have found it rather useless to form an opinion of amps like the Carr Mercury (thanks to Flat and ooglybong) by watching demos on Youtube, which is typical of the dilemma that almost no-one out there does any elaborate demoing of clean sound capabilities. All you ever get to hear is a couple of Strat clichés before those guys switch to guitar-hero mode. And from watching demos on Youtube, one gets an impression that the whole point of power-stage attenuation is to switch from cat torturing to squirrel torturing. I'm afraid, Chimera1to1, that listening to amp demos hasn’t done much to help my tinnitus over the past two weeks. The Carr Mercury sure looks cool, though. They have a demo model on offer for EUR 1999 (down from EUR 2560) at station-music.de, but with the studio monitors in mind I’m unlikely to pull the trigger on this.
(Haven’t adequately responded to other helpful suggestions yet. Sorry about that, but I promise I’ll get back to you if I find the time…)
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Speaking of Bugera amps, I am unlikely to buy one since I cannot picture myself fixing any problems related to inconsistent build quality. Call me prejudiced... But I can understand why one should like them and keep coming back to them.
Watch the guy in this video. In GAS terms, the rig (guitar and amp) he uses would be under 1000 euros new.
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lol Originally Posted by palindrome
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Maybe they're are a little hard of hearing - they certainly shout and swear at each other enough to make me think so Originally Posted by palindrome
incidentally, I did at first suffer from the much discussed (on other forums) "foot-controller-power-regulator-thermal trip-out" problem of the Bugera V22, but I fixed it with a $1 heat-sink. The other solution is not to use the foot pedal ! (Which in fact I now don't, as I use a HoF reverb and don't use the gain channel). Recent builds don't have this problem.Last edited by newsense; 10-19-2013 at 10:19 AM.
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Hello, I also live in an apartment and I use a Roland Cube 20XL. It`s a great amp, if you really want to make it loud you could but it also depends on the guitar you're using. I say forget about the neighbors when thinking about an amplifier. As long as you play at a decent volume(this means even quite loud, as long as it doesn't bother you) and at a normal time you shouldn't have any problems with them(as long as they are understanding) and if they're not screw them. For example my neighbors told me to not play during 2p.m to 4p.m so during those hours I never play amplified.
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Generally you should avoid too small combos as those mostly are equipped with medicore 8-10" speakers.
I just purchased a Blackstar HT1R head for recording and bedroom-rehearsal-levels. I play it through a 12" Eminence Cannabis Rex, - and it sounds awesome. This amp, - one watt, - breaks up a little early for most jazz players I guess, but put its bigger brother - Blackstar HT5R - in front of a good 12" speaker and you have a very versatile setup including a very nice sounding reverb for both clean jazz and other styles, - all IMO.
You can even use the amp without a speaker connected using headphones or for direct recording to a computer via a build-in speaker load.Last edited by bluefonia; 10-19-2013 at 07:50 PM.
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Thanks bluefonia, for the suggestion to combine low wattage with a relatively large quality speaker. Haven't I been stumbling on your face recently when researching Koch amps? Checking these out has been my latest obsession. There are three viable candidates. I’ve been thinking about opening a separate Koch thread later this week. I did look at the Blackstar line following your post and found these little beasts interesting while remaining prejudiced about their meeting my sound expectations and other essential requirements. I have come up with the following requirements:
(1) Tube amp
(2) Great clean sound
(3) Front-panel controls
(4) Three-band EQ (at least)
(5) Independent volume plus gain and/or master controls
(6) FX loop that takes pedals well and is suitable to connect other preamps
I have realized that I shouldn’t be dwelling too much on direct outputs, power soaks, loadboxes, and speaker-emulated outputs, since all these features can be implemented quite readily via the extended-speaker output offered by most amps. Probably the only thing that keeps me from buying a Princeton is the missing FX loop if I may say so without getting excommunicated. As stated above, however, I'm not only thinking about pedals but also about the ability to feed other preamps or modelers into the return jack...
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Pursuant to the end of my latest post, i.e. the ability to feed other preamps or modelers into the return jack of a well-designed effects loop, I have made a strange incidental discovery that might interest the Ibanez TSA faction here (spiral, hans halmackenreuter, newsense). Since I could get a deal locally on a TSA30 (which, unlike the TSA15, includes a three-band EQ and an extra gain control), I checked the manuals of both amps. In both cases, the block diagrams indicate a position of the effects loop right after the tubescreamer. This signal chain would strike me as somewhat acceptable for the TSA15, given its clean headroom, but as downright illogical in combination with the added gain stage of the TSA30. Anyway, both amps feature no reverb, and any reverb you would be adding via the effects loop would get dragged through any dirt created by the amp’s power stage rather than the tubescreamer. And connecting a preamp into the return jack would give you two preamps in series, which seems counterintuitive enough.
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@palindrome, - yes, you might have stumbled on me in a Koch amp thread, as I have had a Koch Studiotone until quite recently. The Studiotone is a very nice amp, but I sold it because it was a bit underpowered for clean jazz tones on gigs. It has been replaced by a Brunetti Singleman 30 Watt.
I have come up with the following requirements:
(1) Tube amp
(2) Great clean sound
(3) Front-panel controls
(4) Three-band EQ (at least)
(5) Independent volume plus gain and/or master controls
(6) FX loop that takes pedals well and is suitable to connect other preamps
If I were you I would check out the Tubemeister, Ampeg GVT15 and Blackstar HT5 R, - all in the head versions.
EDIT: ... and of course the StudioTone :-) (but it is somewhat more expensive than the others)Last edited by bluefonia; 10-21-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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How about: Originally Posted by palindrome
Dual power modes
Full power – 15 watts RMS
Half power – 7.5 watts RMS
Preamp: Tube ( 2 x 12AX7 )
Rectifier: Solid state
Power amp: Tube ( 2 x 6V6GT )
Speaker configuration: 1 x 12" Celestion
Tone controls: Baxandall treble, middle and bass
Effects: Spring reverb, footswitchable
Speaker outputs: 1 x 16 ohm, 2 x 8 ohm and 2 x 4 ohm
Cabinet: Open-back, void-free 15mm plywood
Dimensions (H x W x D inches excluding handle approx.): 19.1 x 18.0 x 10.0
Handling weight (approx.): 41.8 lbs / 19 kg
Its been mentioned before here - the Ampeg GVT15; both Jazzbow and Krueger (finally) have one of these.
Thanks for the info on the position of the FX loop on the Ibanez TSA amps - like you say, it may not make a difference for the 15 Watt, but doesn't make sense for the 30 Watt.
The pointer to the Koch amps was also very interesting; I like the smaller Studiotone. It may be just out of my price range, and I may be discouraged by the prospect of saying "Yes, I have a Koch, but its only a small one".
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I haven't played the tsa30, so can not comment on how it works with a reverb pedal, but it's definatly no problem with the tsa15h - it takes pedals well. Originally Posted by palindrome
with tsa30, your worries are justified, but sometimes it's good to prove theory by a practical test.
My biggest concern would be the 30w, which can be just reduced to 15w, which is going to be way too loud for bedroom level.
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