Fender Concert Series II Amplifier Rivera era 1982-1987

**jorgemg1984** · 08-17-2013, 05:04 PM

Henriksen and Fenders are VERY different. I don't like the Henriksen without some pedals before it honestly.

**Wildcat** · 08-17-2013, 06:59 PM

Gentleman,

Thank you so much. My reason for this post is because of the recent repairs that are being done on my Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight amp. This experience with the a solid state amp, which I like quite a bit, has me returning to the consideration for the vintage tube amp with the "Fender" tone and modern upgrades as with the Concert II.

My solid state amps include a vintage Polytone Mini brute, 12" speaker, a 2011 Peavey envoy, and the JULA. The Polytone sounds great when its not picking up AM stations. The Peavey clean channel, 3 selections, are incredible for a $200 amp, but I am waiting for that to blow up every time I turn it on. Then the recent repair for a possible electrostatic discharge related failure for the JULA, including a blown speaker, has me frustrated.

I can not tell you how much I do not like dealing with equipment issue as it distracts me from practicing and playing. A custom order from Mr. Jim Soloway at the beginning of the year with delivery at the end of the month is the culmination of many guitar purchases and experimentation of the last 8 years. Then the other half, chasing an amp to suit my needs.

I appreciate your thoughts and suggestion.

Cheers as it is all good and fun.

**Wildcat** · 08-18-2013, 02:37 PM

I went to look at the amp and it is the 1993 version "Concert Amp" and not the 1980's version. I notice immediate as the power and standby switches are in the back and not on the front as with the 1980's version.

**Spook410** · 08-18-2013, 03:04 PM

Well dang.. that's disappointing.

**Wildcat** · 08-19-2013, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Spook410

Well dang.. that's disappointing.

Absolutely! As I said I noticed that the power and standby switches were in the back and not in the front as with the Concert II which I think is a good idea. Then looking at the tubes, the locations for the pre-amps were not in a line like the Concert II, but staggered at various locations. Then the Presences dial was missing. Finally the serial number started with "LO-" rather than “F” for the early 80’s. I really do believe the owner when it thought it was a 1983 version as he was very strait up with me. I told him to double check with the local guitar shop he bought it from.

**Moonray** · 08-20-2013, 01:38 AM

....a pity that, Wildcat.

And for those who think the Concert II is heavy....try picking up the 90's job!

1 1/4 Fender Twin [at least].....no kidding.

**Bellybuttonlindt** · 10-24-2013, 07:51 PM

I just picked up 2 Fender Rivera Concerts in the last year. They are the hand wired versions and identified by only saying "Concert" on the black face. If it says "Concert Amp" then it is likely the 1990's version which was not handwired and a different amp altogether...or a rare 50's-60's version. Neither of the ones I purchased worked at the time which was reflected in the price. After reading the Gear Page about all the potential fixes and mods and speaking with Lee Jackson who was also at Fender at the time these amps were made, I was undaunted.

First, Lee said the expected life of the original Fender electrolytic capacitors that filter all the electricity to the amp was 20 years. These amps are now 30+ years old. I replaced the old silver canned electrolytic capacitors in these amps with modern German F&T and Sprague caps and the both amps worked as normal (so called "cap job").

Second, it requires a very good speaker. The original Fender standard speakers were a poor match. The optional EVM12L offered at the time was a very good match. And there are other great matches depending on your tonal pallette. Weber high powered speakers come to mind. But generally it takes a higher powered speaker whether a Celestion, Emminence, Tone Tubby tec. That eliminates a lot of flabbiness particularly in channel two.

Third, some players experience a sort of dullness of tone. That's because there are so called "snubber caps" (tiny capacitors) on tube sockets of preamp tubes 1,2 and 4 that were used by Rivera to prevent parasitic oscillation in overdrive at high volumes (not really a Jazz tone anyway). The purpose of the caps is to restrict or filter out high frequencies...the source of oscillation. Snip these 3 tiny capacitors out per the Gear Page recommendations and the brilliant BF highs come shining through again. The original blackface circuit is effectively reinstated. If you are a jazz player, do these minor tweaks and you have a great amp. And yes it loves pedals too. Larry Carltona and Robben Ford both used them...probably modified by Rivera himself to suit their needs.

A friend of mine from the Nashville area who repairs old Ampeg bass amps, took a look at mine during a visit. He also took home a schematic for study. According to him (I'm not a tech) the circuit is a standard BF (as well as an old Ampeg) circuit design that has been revered for many years. Are there lemons. I'm sure there are! Could the electrolytic capoacitors been on the verge of drying up and going bad in these lemons? Very possible. It's the one component that can deteriorate over time (less so once modern electrolytic caps are installed). Or, was it an inferior standard speaker...a poor match? Very possible too.

Last, the Torres mod referred to in the thread does add a post phase (PI) inverter master volume favored by such people as Ken Fisher (RIP) of Trainwreck amps (maker of legendary rock amps). The point here (not just throwing tech jargon at you indiscriminately) is the PI design has the least affect on the color and tone of the amp, and may help you turn it up to the amp to the edge of breakup for a warmer tone, but at a volume level that is more pleasing to your ears. These are very loud amps. Taming the beast helps. Hope this helps everyone.

**Spook410** · 10-24-2013, 09:40 PM

Since I have a Rivera Concert that was a helpful post indeed Belly..

I certainly need to have a cap job done. Now I know what to ask for. I'm leaning towards the other mods you mentioned as well and need to go do my homework.

The stock speaker does indeed suck in this application. Thinking about a new EV 12" since I'm hoping to lean towards the acoustic side of what my archtops will do.

Thing is, now I have to find someone to do the work. I'm not afraid to solder the occasional guitar pot, but an amp is another thing.

**Jimmy Mack** · 10-25-2013, 07:06 PM

Great post BBL !

I have the 80's Concert with 2 - 10's.

I have to say that I have never been disappointed with the stock Eminence 10's. In fact, I took one out and transplanted it into my BF Princeton Reverb. WoW, did that wake up the PR! It now has 6L6's, and the spkr. delivers the goods. Wow, what a bargain, to have 2 great spkr's , one I can share with another great amp, and keep one in the "home" amp.
The Concert with only one 10, still shines....
I played a gig with it, one 10 plugged in, one unplugged accidentally, and everyone heard it, no miking. Sound guy said "it didn't need miking". Great spkrs.

I may need, to heed your advice on the cap job, I'm getting some nasty flubbiness on the clean channel.

Thanks.

**earlclark** · 05-04-2014, 07:55 PM

I was disappointed with mine when I first got it. I kept trying to get a singing lead tone from the 2nd channel. I finally came across a thread that said to bridge the effects loop, if not in use. I did that and the amp came alive. I have the 2x10 and I replaced the speakers with 2 Jensen Alnicos. Later I was able to acquire the Deluxe Reverb II. Wow! This is my go-to amp. It has a single 12" speaker. It had a CQ12 when I got it. I promptly put in my JBL D120F and love it. But, I wanted to hear the Concert with the JBL and the Deluxe with the 2 10's...Amazing! The cabinets are the same size, so I just swapped the chassis. Every few months, I'll switch them up just for the flavor. They are great amps and at the moment I have my eye on a Princeton Reverb II that's in a store here. To anyone who finds one, get it. It's hard to find hand wired PTP construction for the prices you can pick these up for. Although, as I speak there's a DRII on ebay and the buy it now price is like $1350, USD. I use them both with Strats, Teles, Les Pauls, a CS 336 and a Gretsch, loaded with TV Jones Classics. I play a variety of music, mostly Funk, R&B and Rock along with some Country and some Jazz. On Sunday mornings, I play Comtemporary Christian music. Fenders are hard to beat. I also have a 1954 5D3 tweed Deluxe and a 74 Silverface Deluxe, and a few others. God gave Leo Fender a wonderful gift for the world. I'm new to your forum and did not mean to be so wordy, but have really enjoyed the comments I've seen so far.

**Jimmy Mack** · 05-04-2014, 08:14 PM

I need to post an update on my Concert II. I wanted to use it on the gigs, so i took it to the bar we play in every Saturday. It sounded okay, but started having issues with loud noises and cutting out. This forced me to finally send it to a repair shop.

Andy Fuchs comes to our gigs regularly to jam with us. He took the amp home with him. 2 weeks later, after 13 replaced caps, new power cord, some new Power tubes and new pre-amp tubes, cleaned sockets and pots, I have , not only a like-new amp, but he tuned it up so that now it is just killer, full, punchy and the OD channel sings. Clean channel is rich, and full, like the best of Fenders. It is a joy to play, and very versatile tone wise.

Looking forward to another 30 years with this one.

**Jimmy Mack** · 05-04-2014, 08:44 PM

Well, I wish everyone had an "Andy Fuchs" in the neighborhood. Actually, he took it to his shop, and yes, I did pay him for his services.

But, besides the great service, you ought to hear him play the guitar......and the bass !!!!!! And then there's the "genuine nice guy" attributes he possesses! Lucky indeed.

**Gitfiddler** · 05-07-2014, 03:39 PM

Another Rivera-era fan here (including Concert, Princeton Reverb II, Super Champ and Champ II)! All great amps, but the Concert is the big daddy of them all. Yes, the Super Champ connected to an extension speaker cab kills all, but that discussion should be saved for another thread!

The only issue I have with my Concert II is the heavy mids on both channels. It sounds best with single coils, but has a glorious jazz tone.

What exactly did Fuchs do to your Concert?? Man, I'd love to have him work on mine. I'm considering a cap job in the near future.

**Klatu** · 05-07-2014, 04:18 PM

My experience with the Rivera Concert II was a bit less positive than many of yours. Like many others in this thread, I had a lot of trouble finding a usable drive sound in the appropriate channel, but unlike most, I wasn't able to dial in a blackface jazz sound that I could live with. The cleans were always just a bit too harsh for my liking. After reading much of the data online, I'm thinking that mine may have been a lemon since most users easily found excellent clean blackface sounds.

I would like to hear clips of its clean jazz sounds if anyone has any.

**BigMikeinNJ** · 05-07-2014, 04:42 PM

Hey Tim,

Great seeing you around my old friend... You have a fantastic guitar amp guy in San Francisco right on 123 9th Street south of Mission called Guitronics. The owner is really a great repair person and honest as the day is long. I took my blackfaced Deluxe Reverb to him for a cap job and he quoted me over $250.00. About 8 days after I dropped it off he called me to say he had it done and I nervously asked him HOW MUCH. He said like less than $80.00. With all the humidity and fog in Pacifica a little electroclean tuned her up after you looked at her in 2007 and I held onto it until 2011 and it served me well...

Here's my Fuchs ODS modded Princeton Reverb. The guy I bought her from was an IBMer with coin to spare and he had Andy do the total ODS mod, the SLR mod and then the fella had a custom flamed maple and mahogany cabinet, new baffle to handle a 12 inch Cannabis Rex speaker. It's a great little amp. Eventually sold the Deluxe because (stupidly) I thought the FUCHS was all that and a bag of chips. LOL
Anyway buddy hope all is well for you out there.

BigMike

**Spook410** · 05-07-2014, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

My experience with the Rivera Concert II was a bit less positive than many of yours. Like many others in this thread, I had a lot of trouble finding a usable drive sound in the appropriate channel, but unlike most, I wasn't able to dial in a blackface jazz sound that I could live with. The cleans were always just a bit too harsh for my liking. After reading much of the data online, I'm thinking that mine may have been a lemon since most users easily found excellent clean blackface sounds.

I would like to hear clips of its clean jazz sounds if anyone has any.

I wonder how much this had to do with the stock speaker which is pretty awful.

**Jimmy Mack** · 05-07-2014, 06:02 PM

Depends on what speaker is "stock". I have 2 10" Eminence in mine. I thought it was a bit too top - ended sounding, like a trumpet, and wanted more girth to my sound, even a "flugelhorn", if you will. I put in a Tone Tubby 40/40. much more mids now, and still brite if I want it, but not too dark.

The 10" Eminence spkr. I removed, works wonders in my old Princeton Reverb, the little monster!

**Gitfiddler** · 05-07-2014, 06:30 PM

Big Hello to Big Mike in NJ!!!

That is a sweet looking Fuchs-Princeton Reverb amp you've got there, my friend. Kinda looks like my souped-up Blues Jr., but I bet yours really screams.

Thanks for the amp tech recommendation. I'll look him up.

All the best to you and your lovely blonde (your wife, not your blonde archtop!)...

**Gitfiddler** · 05-07-2014, 06:32 PM

For anyone interested, here is a website that specializes in these old Rivera-era amps.

Lots of interesting info:

schematics for Rivera era Fender amps

**D.G.** · 05-07-2014, 06:54 PM

The Rivera era amps I've owned, Princeton II and Concert II, did not have what I would call a classic blackface sound. It wasn't my thing so I sold them both. Toneless amps IMO. Kinda reminds me of how some people think that Fender Hot Rod amps have a blackface sound, when really, they don't. They just don't

YMMV

**Jimmy Mack** · 05-07-2014, 09:58 PM

Dear Gitfiddler: Aside from the aforementioned basic amp maintainence procedures performed by Andy Fuchs and his crew, he didn't go into detail as to what he did specifically.

Biasing - I am sure since he put in new P Tubes. He knows how hot or cold the amp needs to be biased at, and /or : how i play and what I need from the amp, what the amp does better with, with the tubes he put in it (JJ's)

But, I'd guess there are things that amp techs know and do. Maybe some cap values that bring out better tonal voicings, and again, what will make this particular amp shine. I don't know what else to say. The speakers in use may also influence the tech's decisions.

In action, the tone controls are very responsive. The amp is loud. At 3 on the MV dial we are getting to the "too loud"
area, above that: the volume is forceful and for my purposes scary! It's like a Twin Reverb with 10's and IME much more
soulful.

**Gitfiddler** · 05-08-2014, 09:58 AM

Jimmy~ Thanks for the comments. There seems to be more love than disdain for the old Concert II's. One thing is certain, they respond very differently depending on how one sets the EQ, especially on the Drive Channel. Like Mesa amps, it takes a lot of knob twisting to find the preferred sweet spot. And that is before swapping in different tubes and speakers. I plan on keeping my 1x12 version mostly stock (already put a nice Jensen speaker in it), but will definitely take it in for a 30 year check up and possible cap job.

Interesting conversation...about an interesting, high quality amp!

**rhoadsscholar** · 05-08-2014, 04:53 PM

I love mine so much i had a custom cabinet built by a friend in greater detroit. He does amazing work. converted it to a head/cabinet combo in flame cherry wood with 2 10"" Rajun Cajun speakers

3/4 of a twin on clean is a good description with a little bit of boogie in the drive channel.

**Jimmy Mack** · 05-08-2014, 06:47 PM

One funny thing, I was reading on the link you provided Gitfiddle, and that led to a link to a magazine review from the '80's about the "then new Concert amps". They called it, "half a Twin".

I think our RHOADSSCHOLAR got closer to it: 3/4's of a Twin. Mine is almost the same size, and with 2 - 10's, and 60 watts of power! Sounds like 90%.

How do you like those Ragin Cajuns rhoadsscholar?

**rhoadsscholar** · 05-09-2014, 12:42 AM

You have to break in the Ragin Cajuns speakers (I was skeptical at first). They are a good upgrade for a superchamp xd or a princeton reverb as they have a 106 db frequency response (I believe) which ends up making the amp louder without having to go to a 12"" speaker. I didn't really push them as much with the priceton lower wattage amp, but I think 2 10"" is a good combo for the 60 watt head. until they break in, they remind me a lot of the beta speaker I had in my jazzamp. The speaker is probably better for fushion type stuff then clean jazz. I use it with my Heritage American Eagle and i am quite happy with the results. Close enough to a twin and it gets plenty loud and don't get any real speaker breakup so to speak (feedback would come first before i could push enough volume with a hollow body).