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Before EPI. Co. left NY for Phily Pa. due to a striking work force,
the Deluxe ACOUSTIC model was offered with a Venetian cutaway
called the Regent, (solid wood - carved top & back, NO pickup).
A number of Epi workers stayed in NY once the Phily move took
place and worked with the then new GUILD Co. In '56 the
Johnny Smith Award model was first produced, continuing till
'62 it seems.
I am trying to choose which to focus my hunting on; and I want
to know which is deemed by the archtop guitar enthusiast com-
munity to have superior construction, sound, play-ability, invest-
ment strength, etc.
I look forward to your informed opinions!
Last edited by AdvenJack; 07-07-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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07-07-2013 11:50 AM
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both guitars are hard to find.
early 50s Deluxe will have an 18" body, I've had 3 of those, I think poster FWS6 still has one or two.
they typically have a very big sound.
the Guild is a 17" guitar, I've played one or two, they were just ok acoustically. they bring more money than the Epi's
if I were considering something like this I'd buy a later model AA or Gibson Johnny Smith, they're close to being the same guitar w/out the huge price tag.Last edited by wintermoon; 07-07-2013 at 01:19 PM.
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Be aware that many Epi's of that era are prone to binding separation, usually in the waist area or cutaway section. As you are probably aware if you are looking for guitars at this level and age, Epi used hide glue during this period. It's not that the workmanship was poor, it was the hide glue that let go. I owned a '49 Triumph Cutaway, this was before they started calling the cutaway guitars Regent. The label inside said "Cutaway". The guitar is featured in Norm's Rare Guitar book. I bought it from him. At any rate it needed attention as the binding was falling off-not a big deal was about a $800 job.
I'm pretty sure by the late 50's the use of hide glue was out so the Guild may be the better bet, although I am a total fool for Epi's from that period. You are seeking two very wonderful and rare instruments to be sure!
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It's emotion based. Anything from late '59 and earlier was created pre-me,
and that's what I want. I just enjoy saying to myself, to my kids, and others,
"This thing's OLDER THAN ME !" Gibson L5's and Les Pauls are too costly
for me to consider. (At this point I only desire guitars with No laminated wood,
no pressed archtops, only carved.)Last edited by AdvenJack; 07-07-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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And thanks to you both for your input.
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I don't own one, but to me the Epi Triumph Regent is just sublime. This purportedly is a 1953 specimen.
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A fine instrument. I like the Deluxe's extra touches so much though...
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It may not be "fancy" enough for you, however have you considered a early to late fifties L-7C? It would seem to meet the requirements you mention-and there are plenty out there. It is very similar to a L-5C with less ice cream and trust me as a former owner one of the best values in a vintage jazzbox. Also, if you ever need to sell a larger pool of buyers. Even though I'm a total nut for fifties Epi's they can be tricky-in my experience not as consistant as Gibson of the same era. Also I wonder-for what you would have to shell out for a Deluxe Cutaway or early Guild Johnny Award it would seem to me you would be in L-5 territory pretty quick-maybe not pre 1959 though.
Before I came to my senses and started buying instruments I could make a living with, I was on a similar quest. I pined for a 1956 L-5C. That is my birth year, and I found a beautiful example for 12K. Funny thing was I had the means to buy it but walked away.
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Gib L7C is certainly A GREAT guitar. I do like the multilayer bindings
and what-not of the stepped up models though. I appreciate your thoughts
and consider all the info presented.Last edited by AdvenJack; 07-09-2013 at 10:05 PM.
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U make me curios; what kind of instruments can one make a living with
if that's not rude to ask?Last edited by AdvenJack; 07-09-2013 at 09:53 AM.
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Hopefully ST will respond but since he hasn't yet I'll give it a shot...
Originally Posted by AdvenJack
To me, the kind of instruments one can make a living with are the ones that are serviceable but relatively inexpensive. Like any other job, if all the money you make goes into your tools, you're not making any money. Most of the working musicians I know who are really making their living playing music are far from wealthy, most are barely scraping by and many are on the road. They want tools that are good enough to do the job, don't cost a fortune and are reasonably replaceable.
Of course, ST may have meant something entirely different.
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I get you AlJo.
Last edited by AdvenJack; 07-09-2013 at 10:11 PM.
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Yes, I make it a practice to have instruments that will pay for themselves, being a full-time pro. It's great to have a really fine instrument or two, but the workaday world is not kind to them. Any instrument eats up the profit from the first gigs played on it; if you spent several thousand, you may be working for free for quite a while. On the other hand, if you have some cash, a great guitar is a great guitar.
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Both AlohaJoe and ronjazz nailed it. I can't really add anything. I was mostly thinking of my quest for vintage tone with vintage equipment and the times 50's amps or instruments let me down. Not often, and not from lack of attention to details. But it did happen and as a working pro I couldn't let it continue. So the vintage stuff stays home and the Pisano 880 got the work. That was until last August when a 93 Guild AA showed up at my door from a fan. He didn't give it to me however just said to keep it, set it up my way and play it the way it was meant to be played. I did eventually buy it from him though.
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The road kills guitars. There's a reason that George Benson keeps his Johnny Smith at home (D'Angelico too) and tours with supplied production guitars. Those GB10s sound good and can be replaced. I'd probably use a production Tele these days just to deal with the road.
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I get it men. Thank you for sharing!
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Back to the OPs original question, I have a late 40s Broadway and a Triumph and acoustically I think they beat the later Guilds for volume, projection and tone. I'm a big Guild fan too, but IMO they ever quite matched the big sound of the old carved Epiphones made in NY.
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Very much agree with AlohaJ on the Epi/Guild comparo. Even some of the lower line Epi's can be outstanding like the Devon. I was mostly addressing the OP's orginal request for info on cutaway Epi's from the early fifties. They just seem a bit thin on the ground, especially the higher end models like the Deluxe. I would imagine this is due to the fact that they made far less of the upper end models, while the Triumph Regent was a volume seller. I am old enough to remebemer the time when you could barely give away 40's and 50's non cut Epi's. Many were hacked up by less than skilled folks with good intentions, tops routed for built in pickups, attempts at cutaways etc. It is nice to know that there are many players and collectors in this day and age that appreciate non-cut archtops and are preserving them.
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I have played many vintage Epis and many Guilds. A guy from my home town was a dealer in the 50s and became a collector. As a kid, I would walk into his shop and marvel at the wall of Epi archtops. In college I would return and play them. My recollection is that almost all NY Epi archtops sound better acoustically than the Guilds...I say this as a Guild owner. The non-cut Epi Deluxe, Emperor, and Broadway are sensational acoustic guitars. There are issues, but a cared-for Deluxe is almost as good as it gets. It takes a great L5 or Super 400 to compare--as a jazz acoustic. A 40s non-cut would be my choice.
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For an electric, on the other hand, the Epis (NY) are flaky. I would much sooner play a Stuart or Stratford. (For _electric_, though, I would rather have a L-5CES)
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I am loving all this feedback guys! Thank you so much for your thoughts!!!
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It's a very passionate subject. The guitars being discussed are a rare and wonderful slice of Americana in the 50's. Although this is another golden age of custom and even factory made archtops, the vibe of these 40's and 50's instruments is very unique. If I had a extra 6K hanging around, I would be celebrating a NGD with this '53 L-7C in a heartbeat...my first guitar teacher played one just like it.
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I've got one of these guys, an Epiphone Triumph Regent. My dad bought it about 1962. A lot of dings, somebody added a pickup to it, fortunately didn't carve out the top, just a screw in kind of thing. It's had some of the binding loosen up and the original tortoise shell celluloid pickguard self destructed. I had the frets replaced about 20 years back, the guy did a fine job.
This guitar is not only a sound box, but it's a tough survivor as well.
Currently installing pickups- floating of course off of a hand made pickguard that will have the controls, so no damage to the top. Using the tortoloid material and binding material both from stewmac.com to make the pickguard.
These guitars really have a sharp bite, will be interesting to hear what it sounds like with the pickups. I listened to an old Emperor once, was amazed at the presence that it had when plugged in.
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