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Hello everyone!
I'm a new member in the forum and generally new into jazz.
I bought a Peerless Monarch just a few months ago -my first archtop- and it sounds great! However, I'm looking into lightly modifying it by adding a tone pot. From a little research I've made on the web, a thumbwheel tone pot hidden under the pickguard would be great.
Does anybody have any experience in this mod? I have basic soldering skills.
What type of tone pot should I get?
Any diagrams/schematics available?
Thanks in advance!
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02-19-2013 06:41 PM
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I had one put on on my archtop. The only thing I would mention is this: there are linearly tapered and the other kind (logarithmic taper?) and if I recall correctly you want the logarithmic tapered kind for any tone pot. The lack of symmetry means that you need to choose it correctly (right handed? left handed?) given that since it is attached *under the pickguard* the direction of rolling off the tone is backwards from the usual (counterclockwise). Hopefully you get what I mean. So if you get it wrong one of two things will happen: either rolling the tone off will occur when you rotate backwards from what you are used to, or else nothing much will happen until the very end of the turn where the tone will very quickly go from 10 to 0. Neither of these is a huge problem, it just means you have to learn to adjust to it. But basically you have to do a mental arithmetic problem of the kind (-1)*(-1)*(-1)*..=? to get it right.
Once it's on, it is easy to use, I have had it on (glued) for many ears now with no problem.
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I find the taper on these to work very well.
Schatten Thumbwheel Controls - Information and Pricing at LMI
For a tone control lease consider that you are not playing Yngwingywie Strat solos, and that a 250K (vs. 500K) pot really will give you a very useful taper. For what it is worth, Benedetto uses 250K even on their high output fat PU's.
The Schatten wheels will be tapered in the right direction (as pkirk mentions). This is not always the case with other pots like this.
Expensive, but they do work very nicely. I have never actually used the double-sided tape method, but the tape they supply seems up to the task. Just clean the back of the PG extremely well. I am more a fan of hot melt glue or even Gorilla brand CA.
Chris
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>>> Any diagrams/schematics available?
It is staggeringly straightforward to add a tone control. You do not need to de-solder anything on the existing setup.
I suggest trying the classic .02 uf (point zero two microfarad) capacitor. Voltage capacity will not matter, so get the smallest one you can find, which should be VERY small to hide nicely under the PG. Check the tolerance on the cap though. Some can have very wide tolerances. Anything more than 20% can be an annoyance.
The little green rectangular one at Radio Shack will be fine.
Once you have everything gathered, come on back and we can walk through the install. In a nutshell, you will be attaching the new pot to the input of the volume pot, then the cap will go between the new pot and ground.
There are plenty of online schematics showing this. I suggest avoiding "wiring diagrams" which can make troubleshooting hard since they avoid getting across the concept of what you are doing.
ChrisLast edited by PTChristopher; 02-19-2013 at 09:55 PM. Reason: spelling
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Oh good.. a capacitor discussion.
As for the Schatten's, I used the provided double sided tape and it seems OK so far. Very nice under pickguard pots.
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Chris, what would be the difference in these two 250K vs 500K generally and in conjuction with my floating mini humbucker?
Originally Posted by PTChristopher
I think 250K pots cut treble, right?
What I really would preffer is to have the original sound but whenever required, tone to be rolled off at the dedired level.
I really like warm jazz tones (that's the whole idea for retrofitting a tone pot IMHO) but I also like to have my archtop's original sound clarity. Is that helping at all?
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One other thing..
I live in Greece and I rarely order stuff online, so where can I look them up on the open market?
Regular electronics equipment stores or somewhere more specialized?
What would be the correct type of tone pot to ask for in this case? Apart from specific properties.
Let's say I go to a general electronics equipment store, where no guitar electronic knowledge is available, should I be asking for a compact audio taper potentiometer? And what about the thumbwheel?
Sorry for being such a pain in the @&#...
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Hi George,
>>> Chris, what would be the difference in these two 250K vs 500K generally and in conjuction with my floating mini humbucker?
>>>I think 250K pots cut treble, right?
You will have very slightly less extreme high end with 250K. It will be possibly noticeable if you use a very low capacitance cable and are able to A/B test the 250K vs. a 500K pot.
>>> What I really would preffer is to have the original sound but whenever required,
In principle, a 1 meg ohm or larger would give you a tone control that would be indistinguishable from no tone control at all when measured very carefully.
The downside of 250K is that, in principle anyway, you lose some extreme high end even at "10". The upside is smooth and useful control with the knob/wheel vs. the sometimes abrupt control of a larger pot.
Either 500K or 250K will work. Many prefer 500K.
The reason for the traditional difference is manifold. Partly it is a sort of ham-fisted impedance match to the PU's. Partly it is to compensate for running many pots in a circuit. Partly it is tradition (ya know, like in "Fiddler on the Roof").
I am a fan of usable knobs on my guitars. So I adjust values and add components as needed to get useful smooth taper on the pots.
Many very sensibly prefer to keep the pot values up to maintain a slight edge in extreme highs out of the guitar. This arguably gives a better signal to noise ratio in the high end when you then attenuate the highs a bit at the amp.
My opinion. I am counter-culture in my preference for less huge-o-sity in passive pots on the guitar.
Chris
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>>> I rarely order stuff online,
I suggest making an exception in this case.
>>> What would be the correct type of tone pot to ask for in this case?
It's tricky. You need the value, the taper (logarithmic or "audio"), AND you may also need it to be backwards vs. what someone stocks for small audio device applications.
Really, it will be far cheaper to apply 'Ricardian Comparative Advantage' here. So work a little extra at what you do best, then use this extra largesse you earn to order the Schatten Wheel from LMI.
The capacitor can be bought absolutely anywhere. I suggest a .02 uf in the smallest size you can get. Any electronics supplier will have them.
We are expecting another snowstorm this weekend, so do not expect any sympathy for living in Greece and sourcing these components.
Chris
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Thanks a lot Chris for the useful info. Ordering from the U.S is a bit tricky when it comes to custom taxes.
You know, we aren't exactly skinny dipping 12 months a year here in Greece. We have major rainfalls this autumn/winter in Athens. Originally Posted by PTChristopher
But compared to snowstorms, feel free to envy us!
Just joking!
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>>> Ordering from the U.S is a bit tricky when it comes to custom taxes.
Send me a PM and then I can get the stuff and send it to you for your birthday. I order from LMI fairly often anyway. If you can cover my cost via Paypal we are all set.
Chris
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Is there a reason you want a thumbwheel pot instead of a matching tone pot for the vol pot?
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Schatten's thumb wheels are great! Everything he touches is gold! I'll let him know, because we're pals! His shop is about a 5 minute drive from my folks place! I've known him for years and he's worked on many of my guitars!
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Ask your friend how to easily buy his product in Greece.
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Schatten Design - Pickups, Transducers, Tools, Technical materials for the string instrument repair trade
Anybody can ask him! Although, it's past the end of today's workday...
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Yep, I drove up to Waterloo last week & picked up a twin set. They're great... really tiny. (A tip, since stewmac decided to drop singles: buy a twin & score/snap in two >> voila..2 singles. Brings the cost down a bit.) Contact them...I'm sure they'll get it to you.
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Canadian! I had no idea...
cool!
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I emailed "Schatten" and the shipping cost to Greece is at 40$. Total amount is at 66$. Originally Posted by Clamps
The thumbwheel looks great with shielded cable and everything but it's just too expensive for me.
However, I've came across with this:
500K Under-Pickguard Linear Mini Pot | Allparts.com
It's surprisingly cheap and it's available by many suppliers in Europe, maybe in Greece as well.
There's only the 500K option though.
Has anybody tried it?Last edited by georgez; 02-23-2013 at 12:47 PM.
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And of course it's linear and not logarithmic. Originally Posted by georgez
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I've used several of those...got them from WD Music, but they look the same. They worked out fine ...I'd say go for it, especially if supply is more local.
FWIW, I just mounted them with a little "pillow" of epoxy over each outer mounting tab (...you should drill a tiny, shallow hole for the brass axle in pic 3 to make it seat better.)
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Dave, as far as I can understand you mean I should drill a shallow but not all the way through hole (e.g 2 mm), right? My pickguard is wooden about 5 mm thick. Originally Posted by DaveS
The terminals side of the pot should be attached to the pickguard like shown in picture 2 and the flat brass axle end should be mounted into above mentioned hole for extra security (???).
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The Allparts pot will work. The taper will be a bit odd, but you will get used to it, and since it is linear, there is no "backwards" taper problem as you can get with thumbwheel pots.
Mount as Dave mentions.
>>> Dave, as far as I can understand you mean I should drill a shallow but not all the way through hole (e.g 2 mm), right? My pickguard is wooden about 5 mm thick.
Not to speak for the very accomplished builder Dave, but yes, you want to sink the brass axle protrusion into the PG with a partially drilled hole.
>>>The terminals side of the pot should be attached to the pickguard like shown in picture 2 and the flat brass axle end should be mounted into above mentioned hole for extra security (???).
No idea what "picture 2" is. The brass is sunk so that the mounting tabs are flush with the back surface of the PG. Dave suggests epoxy for the mount. I have been equally happy with Gorilla-brand CA, but not with more brittle CA adhesives.
Chris
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Georgez, Chris summed it up... just a very shallow blind hole or pocket for the axle to sink into.
I've not tried the Gorilla CA, but after Chris's recommendation in earlier thread(s), I plan to.
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While it is quite likely the 250K version of a tone pot yields a better result especially coupled with a cap value particularly suited to an individual, I've been using the 500K version for both volume and tone w/ a .022uf cap for awhile now. It could be better. More linear and graduated. Less abrupt. But I can't say I notice it that much. Going with 250K pots and a smaller cap in the next one so we'll see.
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Hey guys, a little help needed here!
I've finally got the thumbwheel pot through WDmusic (UK). In fact I bought 2 x 250K and 2 x 500K pots (as spare parts) for about 26euro (about 33$) including shipping from UK to Greece.
I also got some capacitors but I think they are not the right ones. I specifically asked for .022uf but the salesman insisted that I meant .22uf (no inscription on them). So I'd better find the right ones from another store.
I will also need some wire, a shielded one, right?
What type should I be looking for?
Could somebody help me with the wiring? Anything from a simple drawing, a photo or a link for a similar project..Last edited by georgez; 03-07-2013 at 07:50 PM.
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