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I agree with Philco.
I think Kenny Burrell's tone is incredible. You can hear it slightly breaking up on Midnight Blue, Round Midnight, etc. It's almost the "brown" sound, the harder his attack the more noticeable it is, perfect tone imo.
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02-12-2013 11:51 AM
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the way I got the sound is I'm using an Ampeg J-20 reissue and a ten band equalizer pedal. I boosted the midrange, dropped the treble and the bass a bit, brought up the gain a slight amount and dropped the volume to a comfortable level. Then I fiddled with the tone knob on the amp (the amp only has one tone knob) a little until voila, I got the sound I wanted, nice, smooth warm, mellow and electric.
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I saw Kenny Burrell at Ronnie Scotts in the early 80s. I can't recall what guitar he used, but he was playing through a battered old Fender Twin (probably the house amp). He produced the best plectrum guitar tone I have ever heard. Even better than it sounds on the records.
And I got to shake hands with him afterwards, which was cool!
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The BJFE/BearFoot Honey Bee overdrive will produce this "hot" sound if used with high-output single coil pickups.
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Any idea of how it sounds with low output PAFs and P90s?
Originally Posted by Insufferable_Rhythm
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P-90 pickups are included under "high-output single coil" in that post, others are; Gibson "Staple," Charlie Christian, Dynasonic, Fransch ("Franz"), etc. The pedal works very well with those types of pickups to produce the mild distortion and equalization changes that compose that "hot" jazz tone. It's also fairly dynamic, so it can be sent into overt distortion by picking force or note density.
I do not like the pedal at all with any humbucker.
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Excellent, then it could be a good match to a Barb EQ in Tweed mode with my P90 Godin.
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I hear compression, either from the amp being cranked or the engineer adding it. I thought he recorded with a tweed Deluxe in this era, which compresses beautifully -- I guess that would be power amp distortion. Where you would be able to tell is if he hit some altered chords with any kind of strength.
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The first video posted strongly evokes the tonal character of the Charlie Christian pickup, IMHO.
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Digging "Jazz for Playboys" right now.
Added bonus of Freddie Green on rhythm behind Kenny!
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Digging "Jazz for Playboys" right now.
Added bonus of Freddie Green on rhythm behind Kenny!
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In all of jazz, is there any groove deeper or chiller than this?
The first 30 seconds of this track have been scientifically proven to lower the blood pressure of highly intelligent mammals--including dolphins and labradors--by 10 mmHG, especially if they are driving in heavy traffic right at the moment.
Last edited by Flat; 02-18-2013 at 03:35 PM.
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Reinstall your Adobe flash reader or check for an update. They occur ever 3-4 weeks and could be a fix for what's ailing you. Originally Posted by Patrick2
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Originally Posted by Flat
So very cool. He's not playing loud at all in this track. There's no way the amp could be breaking up at that level. On the opening phrases of the solo there is copious amounts of compression. There were no such thing as compression pedals for guitarists to use in those days so it really makes me think that the engineer added the comp in the mix. Also I would say that there is less compression as the solo continues so the engineer has pulled it down and up in different sections. A fairly common thing to do.
It was and is the engineer's or producer's job to ride the levels in different sections. It's not beyond belief to have compression levels differ in different parts of the solo. Something that is still done today. More so with the sophisticated automation on offer in even the cheapest software these days.
So when we listen to these sounds some of us think "man I have to find out what guitar and amp he was using" and the other half think "no man it's all in his fingers".
I think the sound can be found in both those directions but you then have to make a stop at the recording studio and pay the engineer/producer and all his outboard gear, talent and knowledge some attention.
Smoke and mirrors? Just a little sweetening in the studio using some very famous, old opto compressors......is my guess.
As a footnote......talking about changing things up in the studio (with live recordings) the famous (and I think his best playing) Eric Clapton solo on Crossroads is actually a comp of sorts.
There is one big cut.
The last solo was actually the first. The producer thought that the first solo was better placed at the end so they cut the tape and moved it. If you listen closely you can hear Ginger Baker's hi-hat change radically at the cut.
My point is that it's hard to know what you are really listening to on a recording. Even if it's a live one.
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Interesting KB thread I just noticed from a couple of months ago...
Regarding Mr. B's post (#34), what's Kenny got on that tailpiece anyway? Some kinda 'gizmo'? Hmm...
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It's the magic of warm tubes.
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Bumping an old thread because lately I've been so enjoying Kenny Burrell's tone while learning how to play the tune Midnight Blue. I've been using Spotify to listen to alot of Kenny's recordings...great tone.
Makes me want a 5E3 Deluxe! Seriously thinking about saving some $ to get a clone later this year. Maybe a builder like Lil Dawg amps since they seem reasonably priced.
The Tech 21 Blonde or Joyo American Sound could probably help get this type of tone. Someone mentioned the BJFE/BearFoot HoneyBee overdrive and I have to agree with them. I have a clone someone built for me (a 2-in-1 with a clean boost) and it can get a great low gain, super fat tone. Though I haven't been using it for jazz and need to try it with my archtop yet, it's on my rock pedalboard...I need to try that! Here's a demo of one though:
Last edited by monkmiles; 07-09-2013 at 04:03 PM.
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As a result of this thread and the video above I actually bought a Honey Bee and.........sent it back immediately.
This is one of those pedals that is adding overdrive even when set to zero. Way to much drive for my P90 and Gibson Humbucker.
What you need is a pedal that......for a start........will start at zero and slowly add drive. You also need a pedal that will maintain dynamics.
So if you play it hard it will break up and if you play it soft it will stay clean.
I will save you the effort of buying the following pedals.....because I have.
These are my rejects for that slight break up 50's jazz tone....the ones that had to much drive or that sucked away the tone as soon as you plugged them in.
1 Honey Bee. Way too much drive....even on zero.
2 Okko Diablo That's the one that Greg uses on all his guitar for sale videos on You Tube. Waaaaaaaay to much overdrive and completely sucks the body of your guitar sound. Nice for blues noodle....but.
3 Okko Twin Sonic. Close but no cigar. Too much drive on zero and also a tone destroyer.
4 Ibanez Tube Screamer. I've got the one with every mod known to mankind. It sounds like a piece of shit. End of story.
So save yourself some money and cross those off your list.
The winner.....so far.....for me is the Red Snapper Overdrive MK3. It has complete control of the drive starting at zero. It does not suck your tone away and it has a treble cut control.
It really is a great pedal for that sound.
Ok a lot of these demos sound similar and it's not the jazz tone we are talking about but.......
BUT I'm still searching. If I do find a better pedal for this job I will still keep the Red Snapper. It really is a great pedal.
The one's on my list are:
1 Bogner Ecstacy Blue
2 JHS Superbolt
3 Spaceman Saturn V
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Philco.. how about a tube amp with a GE-7 (ok ok.. tone suck is bad and the Boss can be a little noisy but do you see my point?).
I am thinking a clean boost to hit the first gain stage a little harder. Should be responsive to pick attack and if has a decent eq you can get a little more boost in the mids ala 50s Gibson amp.
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Hmmm, I can dial in my Honeybee Overdrive fat and clean with my Les Paul. Philco, you're not confusing it with the Honey Beest version, are you? I usually set the nature and gain around 9:00 and really like it. These two knobs affect each other. Probably not completely clean (as it is an overdrive), but neither is the tone we're talking about here.
My Princeton Reverb was getting in the ball park the other day, relative to my Clarus.Last edited by monkmiles; 07-09-2013 at 11:32 PM.
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Pushing the front stage of the amp is a viable option but of course it all depends with what and ultimately how your amp responds to that. It would be easy to do with a GE7 but from memory (I had one) they are noisy and very digital. Worth a shot though. Originally Posted by SamBooka
That Spaceman Saturn V pedal is supposed to do just that....push the front end of the amp.
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Originally Posted by hallpass
No it was the standard Honey Bee. I was not surprised when the P90 in my 1961 Gibson 125 distorted through that pedal. That pickup is a beast and has WAY more output than the Humbucker in my L5 Wesmo. But even the Wesmo was distorting when the pedal was set to zero. Unusable actually.
This is either into a Fender Deluxe Reverb or a Mambo.
Perhaps that is the one difference between the pedal and your clone?
The Red Snapper has no problem with the P90.
Yeah I'm on the look out for a champ or a Princeton to try out.
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I heard the Sansamp Blonde is good.
Wish I knew how Joe Pass gets the tone on this, love it.
I usually don't care for is tone beause it sounds too acoustic but this is heavenly.
Not sure if he is using a pick or fingers but i would guess fingers.
I have been playing around with amps in Garageband and it seems some slight distortion helps.
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Yeah nice. Sounds like fingers. Also sounds like a larger bodied guitar. High strings really pop out and are fat and warm. I notice a hint of distortion on some of the chords. Could be any number of things that have happened to the audio file before and during upload or it could have been recorded that way I guess.
JP is strange like that. Sometimes you wonder....does he know how bad his guitar is sounding?.....and other times he is like the God of guitar tone.
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hi Philco, Originally Posted by Philco
have you tried the mad professor seet honey overdrive? It is very touch sensitive, very very fat sounding and can go pretty much clean.
Good luck with the hunt!
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