Gibson vs. Heritage

[Klatu]

I've played and owned a couple of Heritage dogs and have played some Gibson dogs. I would gladly own good examples of either brand, but because I feel the Heritage offers better value, I go with them.

[Jabberwocky]

I've played and owned a couple of Heritage dogs and have played some Gibson dogs. I would gladly own good examples of either brand, but because I feel the Heritage offers better value, I go with them.

That's how one makes a fair statement. Thank you, Klatu.

[Jazz_175]

As an aside, one thing I like about H575 (which I don't own) with respect to ES175 (which I own) is the fact that the Heritage is not so deep as the 175, which I find a bit uncomfortable, in this respect.

[Playerizor]

You lost me on the supermodel analogy. Unless you're considering that supermodels aren't hired for talent or personality, or even looks. They're hired for marketability. And anyone will tell you, supermodels are lazy and unimaginative in the sack.

Really? ANYONE can tell you supermodels are lazy in bed? Does that mean I'm the only one not sleeping with supermodels?

[Patrick2]

I've played and owned a couple of Heritage dogs and have played some Gibson dogs. I would gladly own good examples of either brand, but because I feel the Heritage offers better value, I go with them.

Out of curiousity . . . what would cause you to classify an arch top guitar as a dog? I'm sure there are several possible things and not just one answer. If you would, please try to be specific.

I have played many, many, many arch tops. From moderately inexpensive . . . . all the way up to ugly expensive. I can only remember playing one guitar, that I classified as a dog . . . and even that might have been a hasty and unfair assessment. I'll reserve naming that one guitar . . for now. But, I will discuss it later, after I see yours and hopefully a few other posts on . . "what qualifies as a dog . . for an arch top".

HA! . . maybe I should have started a new thread under that heading.?.?

[jorgemg1984]

Really? ANYONE can tell you supermodels are lazy in bed? Does that mean I'm the only one not sleeping with supermodels?

I have heard similar comments in the past - always coming from guys who obviously never even touched a supermodel.

[Playerizor]

I'm a fan of Heritage so I'll share some thoughts;

1. They have a huge market in Asia so they are doing better than you might think.

2. If they had endorsers and big marketing strategies, better web-site, etc., the instruments would cost more.

3. Even though they are great guitars they are ultimately following the Gibson product line. If you want to be bigger than your competitor you have to lead, not follow.

4. If you buy a used Heritage you won't experience the immediate value drop that comes with buying any new guitar. You could then sell it for the same amount and not loose a dime.

5. All my Heritage's, like Gibson's, have little quality issues that can easily be ignored and generally don't impede playability. In contrast, I own Electromatic and Pro-line Gretschs that all seem dead nuts perfect.

[Klatu]

Out of curiousity . . . what would cause you to classify an arch top guitar as a dog? I'm sure there are several possible things and not just one answer. If you would, please try to be specific.

I have played many, many, many arch tops. From moderately inexpensive . . . . all the way up to ugly expensive. I can only remember playing one guitar, that I classified as a dog . . . and even that might have been a hasty and unfair assessment. I'll reserve naming that one guitar . . for now. But, I will discuss it later, after I see yours and hopefully a few other posts on . . "what qualifies as a dog . . for an arch top".

HA! . . maybe I should have started a new thread under that heading.?.?

I owned a 150 and a Mahogany Eagle with twisted necks. I even went as far as to send the Mahogany Eagle back to the factory to have it heat-pressed, which helped straighted out the neck for a few weeks before it warped back to its previous state.

When I went down to a Heritage dealer's shop to try out several Golden Eagles he had in stock, I fell in love with the one I now own, but found several with twisted necks, crappy pickups, and ultra-thin neck profiles.

I currently own 4 Heritage guitars that I am very satisfied with, but I stick to my argument that while most guitars that come out of the Heritage factory are very good to excellent, some bark and wag their tails.

[rpguitar]

I have heard similar comments in the past - always coming from guys who obviously never even touched a supermodel.

...which reminds me of another gem I saw on an internet forum once:

"For every smoking hot chick out there, I can promise you there's a guy somewhere who's tired of banging her."

And that, ladies and gents (with apologies to the ladies), is probably true in an analogous way for even the most impressively endowed archtops - don't you think?

[Jabberwocky]

..."For every smoking hot chick out there, I can promise you there's a guy somewhere who's tired of banging her."....

I can attest to the truth of this statement. Oh, Yessiree, I can attest to it. Thinking about it makes my loins hurt. Notches on my bedpost, how many do I count thee?

NOT!

Linda Evangelista, erstwhile Supermodel, quote, I don't get out of bed for less than $10 000 in the morning. Unquote. That was in the mid-90s so make that $20 000 today.

Smoking hot is not my cuppa. Cool and subtle is my port of call.

Back to Gibson vs. Heritage.

PS Say, rp, what forum have you been visiting? Me want in.

[2bornot2bop]

I like Gibson guitars. I also like Heritage. I don't think you'll lose a lot on either if you wait and buy the right used guitar.

I could not agree more.

Sorry, Pat2. Nobody pays $3000 for a mint used Golden Eagle. The last one I saw sold for $2380.00. Mint. And an X-braced floater.

So you must have missed these 2 sold @ $3k? Oh what the heck, it must have been some sort of anomaly...twice.

2006 Heritage Golden Eagle Acoustic Archtop Jazz Guitar Natural Finish EXC | eBay

1995 Heritage Golden Eagle Archtop Hollowbody Jazz Guitar Excellent Bin | eBay

[2bornot2bop]

There are currently 3 L5s on ebay right now. Two Wesmos . . . been on there on and off forever at $6,250 and $7,999. There's also an L5CES that isn't selling and the listing has ended. Gee . . . I wonder if the $7,000+ price had anything to do with that.???

Absolutely agreed. I'm on the 'bay several times daily. Sure, there's always used L5's being listed north of $6500...but there's listing and then there's selling.

A used heritage is great value for money. It usually retains whatever you paid for it. So, if you want to sell it, you can usually get your money back. I guess that a new heritage will still take a hit, but, since it is totally custom, you can really get what you really want in the guitar. Which you cannot do with a Gibson.

Couldn't be said any better. And absolutely true in my experience...the key, as has already been mentioned, is buying your used guitar right.

Yeah, I kinda figured that but it was a way for me to keep on topic. I never compare women to guitars. As far as Monica Belluci is concerned, fumblefingers, I can definitely agree with you there. Check her out in the movie Sorcerer's Apprentice or the "R" rated movie Braham Stoker's Dracula. You definitely won't be disappointed.

Monica Belluci. No contest. Reminds me a lil' of my Belarussian ballerina friend Olya from Sankt-Peterburk.

[Patrick2]

I owned a 150 and a Mahogany Eagle with twisted necks. I even went as far as to send the Mahogany Eagle back to the factory to have it heat-pressed, which helped straighted out the neck for a few weeks before it warped back to its previous state.

When I went down to a Heritage dealer's shop to try out several Golden Eagles he had in stock, I fell in love with the one I now own, but found several with twisted necks, crappy pickups, and ultra-thin neck profiles.

I currently own 4 Heritage guitars that I am very satisfied with, but I stick to my argument that while most guitars that come out of the Heritage factory are very good to excellent, some bark and wag their tails.

OK . . . so now that I have a better idea of what you consider a dog, I can respectfully disagree with you on a couple of those issues;; the warped neck issue is a defect. Might have been warped when it left The Heritage plant . . might have happened after it left. Crappy pick ups to you . . might be wonderful to someone else. Regarding the neck profile . . two things here . . for a while, Heritage was definitely guilty of an excessively thin neck . . (fortunately, their necks are now wonderful) But, also keep in mind, Heritage is a custom shop . . and some of the thin necks you might encounter on the used guitars you mught come accross, could have been ordered and spec's as such.

But, I wouldn't define any of the situations as a dog guitar . . . because, they all can be corrected, except for the too thin neck . . that would need a reneck . . but is also correctable. Everything else you mentioned is subjective to taste and preference.

The only true dog arch top I ever encountered, was a brand new Gibson L5 Wesmo. The issues with this guitar were, in my opinion, not correctable. The dealer is quite a reputable one, and I'm surprised they didn't send it back. The guitar was absolutely sterile in terms of acoustic and electric tone. Nothing! That's the only way I would characterize a guitar as a dog. This L5Wesmo also had some serious aesthetic issues . . . way too much lacquer . . appeared to be soft, pliable and felt sticky. The plating on the iconic tail piece was very poor as well. It didn't play well either . . but, a good set up would have easily corrected that.

I'm sure that Heritage too has put out a few dogs over their 27 year history. But, I've been fortunate to have not come accross any . . yet

[Spook410]

Hmm.. actress that might make a high end archtop come to mind? Laura Antonelli in say, 1972.

[peterpanico]

So...wich one in the end???

[lpdeluxe]

Really? ANYONE can tell you supermodels are lazy in bed? Does that mean I'm the only one not sleeping with supermodels?

I guess so.

[Patrick2]

I guess so.

LOLOLOL . . . . now, that's just cold man . . . . LOLOLOL

[hot ford coupe]

So...wich one in the end???

Oh wow, it's not an easy decision. One of each I guess.

[Bluedawg]

Collings wins, no doubt.

But Gibson archtops can be had for about half of what a Collings costs

Just as Heritage can be had for about half of what a Gibson costs


If you want a Gibson you will need to reach deep into your finances to pay for it ...

But nowhere near as deep as you will have to go for a Collings, Monteleone, Benedetto, Manzer, etc.



It all comes down to what you want and what you can afford ...

and what things are worth to you

[Kuz]

But Gibson archtops can be had for about half of what a Collings costs

Just as Heritage can be had for about half of what a Gibson costs


If you want a Gibson you will need to reach deep into your finances to pay for it ...

But nowhere near as deep as you will have to go for a Collings, Monteleone, Benedetto, Manzer, etc.



It all comes down to what you want and what you can afford ...

and what things are worth to you

The above is very sensible and I agree with almost everything.

The only thing I will add is that when I choose my Heritages over Gibsons that I had played, I didn't look at cost first. I didn't think, "Well, I don't want to pay this much for a Gibby so let's look at the Heritages".

I shop by seeing, hearing, and feeling, which guitar speaks to me.... then only later am I concerned about a price difference between guitars.

People should max out their 401Ks/IRAs for their investments and play their guitars.

Again, this is just my opinion....

[PTChristopher]

Collings guitars are truly in another league vs. Gibson and Heritage. The workmanship and attention to detail is extraordinary.

So while the Gibson vs. Heritage price difference is a complex picture considering the similar guitar quality, the Collings comparison is of a genuinely significant and consistent difference in quality - and a non-linear price difference.

One could argue that Heritage and Collings are understandably priced on a non-liner price/quality curve, and that gibson guitars are significantly over-priced, yet sell for other reasons (as I make sheep sounds in the background).

But of course to each his own in this fine day of archtop riches in the whole market.

Chris

[Kuz]

Collings guitars are truly in another league vs. Gibson and Heritage. The workmanship and attention to detail is extraordinary.

So while the Gibson vs. Heritage price difference is a complex picture considering the similar guitar quality, the Collings comparison is of a genuinely significant and consistent difference in quality - and a non-linear price difference.

One could argue that Heritage and Collings are understandably priced on a non-liner price/quality curve, and that gibson guitars are significantly over-priced, yet sell for other reasons (as I make sheep sounds in the background).

But of course to each his own in this fine day of archtop riches in the whole market.

Chris

Then we could add how much my Terry McIntuff Carolina Custom crushed the Collings I compared .....

[Peter C]

I went into a guitar store about twenty years ago looking for a nice Gibson Les Paul. I tried a couple of Standards, which sort of left me indifferent, and was then shown a similar instrument crafted by "the old guys at the old Gibson factory", a H150CM, probably one of two Heritage guitars in Spain at that time. It was just a better instrument in all respects: feel, finish, sound (yes, with those Schaller pickups), plus it was less expensive. Needless to say, I walked out with it. I've always liked the headstock.

Disclaimer: I live far from guitar-civilization and have no idea how they compare now.

[Flint]

About a year ago, I had the opportunity to play off a Gibson ES-335 with P90 pickups, and a Heritage H575. These were selling for the same price. Quickly, I realized it was no contest, and I walked out with the 335. For me personally, the 335 had a better sound, more comfortable neck, and easier body size and shape to deal with. The Heritage was kind of a struggle to play, at least for me.

I'm not recommending the 335 over the Heritage to anyone - do what works for you, not me. I'd just been expecting a tougher choice.

[hot ford coupe]

About a year ago, I had the opportunity to play off a Gibson ES-335 with P90 pickups, and a Heritage H575. These were selling for the same price. Quickly, I realized it was no contest, and I walked out with the 335. For me personally, the 335 had a better sound, more comfortable neck, and easier body size and shape to deal with. The Heritage was kind of a struggle to play, at least for me.

I'm not recommending the 335 over the Heritage to anyone - do what works for you, not me. I'd just been expecting a tougher choice.

For me, this is a completely different situation than Heritage vs. Gibson. This is a situation of two completely different types of guitars that are not equivalent. One is a semi solid and the other is completely hollow. You're looking at two completely different sounds and two completely different playabilities. Now if you matched an ES 335 with an H535 you may have had a more difficult choice.