Why Are Eastman Archtops So Polarizing?

**PTChristopher** · 11-09-2012, 06:45 PM

This all suggests that the Eastman value proposition is simply low end.

I think they offer a genuine alternative at quite a few price points, and to many players they are an upgrade in cost and quality over other guitars they may be considering. They may well be seen by many as a simply better value proposition vs. a Gbson , Hofner, etc, when looking to upgrade ones main axe from an Epi Joe Pass (or some other sort of good beginner archtop).

Chris

**jasonc** · 11-09-2012, 07:19 PM

Fair enough Chris. I still contend that guitarists have it easy when it comes to the cost of an instrument. My friend (who is a professional musician and not a symphony player) owns a 311 year-old italian violin that cost considerably more than any of the guitars we generally talk about here. The point is simply that he knew what it was worth and he found a way to come up with the money. Also, Eastmans aren't too far off from many custom builders entry guitars. Our very own Dave Stewart, for example, builds an exceptional guitar for not much more than an Eastman. Obviously I'm not a neutral third party here since I build these things. I guess the only thing harder than making a living as a musician is making a living from musicians.

**mangotango** · 11-09-2012, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

I can remember posts where some from another country actually swapped a few posts in their native language.

Yeh, this is my native language, actually.

**Dad3353** · 11-09-2012, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by mangotango

Yeh, this is my native language, actually.

Watch your tongue..!

**SamBooka** · 11-09-2012, 09:53 PM

I am all for posts in flemish and wallon .. this is a .be site after all.
We are ALL their guests

**vsaumarez** · 11-09-2012, 10:27 PM

Well I can't add to the rosy reviews of Eastman guitars except to say, my oval hole is one of my best ever axes. It balances so well on my thigh I never need a strap, and the action is super low, neck straight as a die, and it looks beautiful in its faux antique finish. Trouble is I've worn it out. Things like holding value and lacquer issues are not really player issues IMO. They're more in the realm of collector, hobbyist, enthusiast, so the mark of a good guitar is how long owners keep them.

Talking of good quality guitars made in Asia, I played a Peerless Maestro recently, and like the Eastman it blew me away. It just fitted my physical profile, and the notes fell nicely under my fingers. The "must have" sign is when a guitar plays you rather than you playing it and with no adjustments needed.

In terms of the polarizing effect of cheaper good quality imports, I remember all Japanese cars were once referred to as "Jap crap". To be honest who really cares. If the buyer is happy and is getting a better deal, let those who will skulk carry on skulking. I'm amazed at how much some people charge for their guitars. They're clearly not interested in their instruments being played.

I've never heard any complaints about Elixir strings. I remember when they first came out, I was asked to try them out and give feedback. They were super warm, but the coatings used to peel off a little. Don't use them anymore because of the weight balance.

**bohemian46** · 11-11-2012, 10:28 PM

"I've never heard any complaints about Elixir strings. I remember when they first came out, I was asked to try them out and give feedback. They were super warm, but the coatings used to peel off a little. Don't use them anymore because of the weight balance."

This appears to be a complaint: .. the coatings peel off a little. Don't use them anymore because of the weight balance."

Did I misunderstand ?

I don't play Elixir strings because they peel and don't sound as good as other strings that cost less, and last as long. Not complaining, of course.

**Bill C** · 11-12-2012, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Spook410

Damn. Hate it when you're right.

That cleared up a misconception for me. Actually thought there were import tags associated with it. Apparently Hofner faces the same challenges that US guitar makers do.

Import duties and VAT are two separate taxes. If, living in the EU, I buy a guitar from outside the EU, I will pay VAT and import duties before the consignment is released into the EU - ie delivered to me. If I buy from a shop anywhere in the EU I'll expect to pay VAT but no import duties.

**Dad3353** · 11-12-2012, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Bill C

...If I buy from a shop anywhere in the EU I'll expect to pay VAT but no import duties.

The import duties (if applicable...) would have been paid by the wholesale importer, and will be part of the price charged to the customer.

**Spook410** · 11-12-2012, 12:46 PM

Thanks Bill and Dad.. I thought VAT included import duties when, in fact, they are charged separately.

That being said, there appears to be about a 3.2% import duty for an imported guitar like an Eastman (China to EU).

On the other hand, as far as I can tell from simple online calculators, there is a 4.8% duty when a guitar is imported into the US from China.

Like you, we don't see this directly in the US. It gets paid at the wholesale level and passed on in the final price. These duties (particularly the EU) do seem pretty small.

**mambosun** · 11-12-2012, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Spook410

Thanks Bill and Dad.. I thought VAT included import duties when, in fact, they are charged separately.

That being said, there appears to be about a 3.2% import duty for an imported guitar like an Eastman (China to EU).

On the other hand, as far as I can tell from simple online calculators, there is a 4.8% duty when a guitar is imported into the US from China.

Like you, we don't see this directly in the US. It gets paid at the wholesale level and passed on in the final price. These duties (particularly the EU) do seem pretty small.

Yes pretty small when compared with the local taxes (in France 19,6%)

**J. Murrieta** · 11-12-2012, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by jasonc

I guess the only thing harder than making a living as a musician is making a living from musicians.

when you put it like that...i don't envy your position at all. although, i imagine one day i'll be able/willing to drop 5k+ on a custom guitar...one day.

keep up the good work!

**Bill C** · 11-13-2012, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Dad3353

The import duties (if applicable...) would have been paid by the wholesale importer, and will be part of the price charged to the customer.

yes, thanks for clarifiying

**Surreal McCoy** · 11-13-2012, 11:09 AM

I remember when Japan entered the US auto market back in the 60's. People laughed at them and put them down...but they learned and improved.
They aren't laughing now.

When the Pacific-rim manufacturers entered the guitar US guitar market back in the 60's people laughed and put them down. But they learned and improved.
They aren't laughing now.

I played an Eastman 810CE the other day and loved it. Already put down a deposit on it - will be a nice addition in the corral.

**Klatu** · 11-13-2012, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy

I remember when Japan entered the US auto market back in the 60's. People laughed at them and put them down...but they learned and improved.
They aren't laughing now.

When the Pacific-rim manufacturers entered the guitar US guitar market back in the 60's people laughed and put them down. But they learned and improved.
They aren't laughing now.

I played an Eastman 801CE the other day and loved it. Already put down a deposit on it - will be a nice addition in the corral.

Great post. I will add that the story of Eastman guitars shows an entrepreneurial spirit that I admire. Apparently, the founder of the company was a trained Chinese flute player who graduated from a US music program at a Boston university. After graduating, he packed his car with Chinese made violins and stringed instruments and sold them to dealers around the US.

Eventually, the dealers suggested that he try and manufacture his own line of instruments, so he decided to hire a couple of talented luthiers and start a small shop on the outskirts of Beijing. He knew of the reputation of Chinese instruments as being low-end student pieces, but he thought more of his builders to stay at that level. He strove to produce professional quality instruments, and the result was that his shop stood out from the rest of the export instrument industry in China, and the shop thrived. 10 years later they began production on guitars and found tremendous success with their archtop and flattop lines.

Because of this enterprising individual, I now have 2 Eastman guitars in my collection cohabiting comfortably with my Hofner and Heritage guitars. In my case, I would not have purchased more Hofner or Heritage products had Eastman never existed.

**PFC @ Eastman** · 11-13-2012, 01:23 PM

Hello friends and players,

My name is Pat, i work for Eastman here in Pomona, CA. My main job here is design and quality control for all of our fretted instruments.

I travel to china to work with our factory, and always want to hear what people are saying around the world about our instruments, and how we can improve.

I have not yet read every post in this thread, but i have seen some concerns about paint and other small quality issues. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask, or to message me privately. I work with our suppliers and can tell you every detail about our instruments.

I hope this opens up a great line of communication with our users and potential users and us directly. If you want to know a bit about us as a company, check it out here: Eastman Music Company - Accessories

Thank you for all of your support and we hope to be as good a resource as any for your questions and for helping our customers.

-Pat Campo
Project Manager
Eastman Guitars and Mandolins

**Klatu** · 11-13-2012, 01:31 PM

Hey Pat, glad to have you here.

Here's a question about the paint: I have read that early Eastman guitars had issues with thin and brittle finishes, but that those issues had been resolved. What caused these issues and when were they resolved?

**PFC @ Eastman** · 11-13-2012, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

Where did you go to find out that it's an American owned company?

We are indeed an American company, Our headquarters are here, and we operate from Pomona, CA. The person who started this company moved here from China when in college, and started this business from the back of his car! this year marks 20 years that we have been a recognized name in the orchestral strings world.

We own our own factories in China, and do not use some unbranded manufacturer to make our instruments. Since we own our factories, we have complete control of our products and can fix issues much more quickly. We also do nearly all of the work completely by hand, only using a laser machine to cut inlays.

Let me know if you have any questions!

**PFC @ Eastman** · 11-13-2012, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

Hey Pat, glad to have you here.

Here's a question about the paint: I have read that early Eastman guitars had issues with thin and brittle finishes, but that those issues had been resolved. What caused these issues and when were they resolved?

We had an issue in the past with lacquer checking due to weather one winter. It is mainly attributed to the fact that we do not use plasticizer the way some larger companies do in our lacquer. As someone on the board said, it makes the finish sticky or gooey and we certainly do not want that. It does mean that the finish can move and will not chip out as easily, but it really does not help the sound at all. We go for the thinnest possible finish we can get, because finish is like a blanket on your instrument. The thicker the blanket, the less sound you will get.

we have been working with the paint supplier to Collings/PRS/Taylor trying to switch over. They have been very helpful, but this process is not overnight for sure. Transportation of chemicals internationally is a tough business!

we have not had an issue with checking as of late, but i always tell customers to be careful when going from a very cold temp to a warm temp with a guitar. Acclimation is key.

**Spook410** · 11-13-2012, 01:58 PM

Hello Pat.. it's very nice to see you here. The Eastman Company is a fascinating story.

**PFC @ Eastman** · 11-13-2012, 02:37 PM

Thanks Spook! Happy to be here!

**J. Murrieta** · 11-13-2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Spook410

Hello Pat.. it's very nice to see you here. The Eastman Company is a fascinating story.

that goes double for me! thanks for arriving and shedding some more light on the Eastman story. as an eastman player, i'm definitely intrigued.

**4mal** · 11-14-2012, 02:13 AM

Hi Pat,
I need a truss rod tool for my 2007 810 ce. Lovely guitar by the way. Can you point me in the right direction source and size wise ?

Thanks, Mal

**Jazz_175** · 11-14-2012, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by PFC @ Eastman

We are indeed an American company, Our headquarters are here, and we operate from Pomona, CA.

So the whole discussion was about an American company!!

**PTChristopher** · 11-14-2012, 10:21 AM

I like a good muddled conversation as much as the next guy, but regarding the actual guitars, can I ask a few questions of our new Eastman representative?

Hi PFC (I hope you make lance corporal soon),

- Will Eastman be going to a Behlen/Mohawk SIL or Seagrave (McFadden formula) lacquer in the near future? These will represent a move to the modern mainstream in terms of hardness vs. durability. These lacquers are quite good, in my opinion, and do not have the goopy feel of the Gibson formula.

(EDIT: And for lacquer nuts, I tried the Cardinal lacquer last winter with very good results. Comparable to Behlen/Mohawk SIL and Seagrave/McFadden in hardness, faster time to final polish, yet similar long-term sink-back over a few months. A very fine alternative lacquer - with the near-advantage of a shorter, less confusing name.)

- What is the base coat on current Eastman finishes. Is there a spirit varnish or other sealer coat on the wood as was described back near the beginning of Eastman guitars? The reason I ask is that sometimes with very hard traditional lacquer, the ratio of the eventual lacquer thickness to the sealer thickness can result in more fragility than one might otherwise expect.

Nice guitars and very, very cool overall product line regardless of legal entity location or country of manufacture.

And now back to world politics,...

Chris