headstock repair value

[no disclaimer]

So a few years ago a friend of mine was shipping a Gibson ES 165 and the shipping company dropped it and broke the headstock. It was a pretty clean break so the repair was pretty straight forward but he didn't try to finish over it and you could clearly see the break. I really liked the guitar so he offered to sell it to me for half the going rate on ebay. They generally go for 2000.00 I gave him a 1000.00. Later I sold the guitar and was able to get my 1000.00 but it took awhile. Now I'm in the hunt for a L5 and there just happens to be one on ebay with a headstock repair. What do you guys think the going rate for a L5 with a headstock repair would be.

[SamBooka]

Vintage Guitar or Premiere guitar mentioned in a vintage buyers guide 30% off the price of one without a headstock break.

[Bill C]

Vintage Guitar or Premiere guitar mentioned in a vintage buyers guide 30% off the price of one without a headstock break.

that sounds about right in my experience

[no disclaimer]

Thanks guys, it was a brand new guitar when it went out. That makes it a tough call because I can buy a pretty clean used one without a broken headstock for the same cash

[SamBooka]

You can tell the seller that expecting a repaired guitar to go look for the same price as unmolested one is unrealistic

If he doesn't budge, there are other L5's in the sea

[no disclaimer]

Right now he is at 5100.00 I was thinking more like 4500.00 other than the repair it is mint condition.

[Kuz]

Thanks guys, it was a brand new guitar when it went out. That makes it a tough call because I can buy a pretty clean used one without a broken headstock for the same cash

For me, I am not touching a repaired headstock guitar. It is not the repair, if done correctly it is stronger than the wood. But I had one guitar with a headstock repair and took a MAJOR hit on it, I could not give the guitar away. I think only a 30% depreciation is being VERY optimistic. There is a stigma with headstock repaired guitars, and for better or worse, you will need to get the right buyer at his price if you ever decide to sell.

Just my .02

[Patrick2]

I agree with John (Kuz) on this one. The seller is being very unrealistic expecting $5,100 for a guitar with a repaired head stock. If the guitar was brand new when it went out and got the break . . . it should have, and probably would have been sent back to Gibson for a re-neck. There's more to this story that you aren't being told. Also, $4,500 is still probably too much for the guitar in its current condition. If it was me, here's how I would handle it; I'd pay no more than $3,000 for the guitar. Then, I'd take it to Aaron Cowles . . . or someone of his skill level . . . .. and have him make me a new neck. The re-neck and the re-fin it would require after the new neck is installed would probably cost somewhere around $1,500. Then, for $4,500 I'd have a perfectly sound (structurally) L5 . . with a neck made to my specifications . . . with the knowledge that I could easily recoup my money when I sold it . . . if I ever sold it.

[Patrick2]

I just did an ebay search. I saw a 2010 at Bizarre-Guitars . . . says that the repair was done at Dave's. The repair does seem to be refin'd . . . looks pretty good too. Now, I feel differently about it. If that's the guitar, and you can confirm from Dave's that they did the repair . . how significant the break was . . whether or not it required dowling . . etc., then, $4,500 might not bo such a bad deal for it. But, if you're doing this over the inter net . . . pay with an American Express card . . total recourse . . and insist upon a written and faxed guarantee of 24 hour right of refusal/return.

Edit; if you do buy it, make sure you black light it. The black light will tell you just how significant the break actually was . . . or wasn't.

[no disclaimer]

Thanks for the info Patrick. Yes that is the guitar and I think 4500.00 is absolute top dollar. I should ask if they have some pics of the break. For 5500.00 you can hold out and get one in pretty clean condition.

[stevedenver]

For me, I am not touching a repaired headstock guitar. It is not the repair, if done correctly it is stronger than the wood. But I had one guitar with a headstock repair and took a MAJOR hit on it, I could not give the guitar away. I think only a 30% depreciation is being VERY optimistic. There is a stigma with headstock repaired guitars, and for better or worse, you will need to get the right buyer at his price if you ever decide to sell.

Just my .02

totally agree
50% off FMV is about right
why?
because of the stigma
and
because there are so many available without this issue
and
you take a chance that the repair is less than perfect-ie the angle isnt the same

otoh, if you can get a L5 studio for about 3500 or so, then selling this guitar for the same prices, seems, ....not quite right....and thus the split the difference pricing
it may simply be a great guitar, and the break may limit you to selling it only to persons who can actually play it in person (to get confidence about it-but the will likelystill try to bargain down)

i might agree if the guitar was truly rare-or otherwise unique

i have a guitar (LP spotlight special) with a break-factory repaired
the guitar plays wonderfully and made me realize that a break per se can be repaired

but
had this not been a rare LP, at a steal price
i wouldnt have touched it

the issue is simply future re-sale

ps the UV thing may/will only show the overspray area, not the actual break

otoh the price is tempting, indeed, but itssorta with the perspective of a non-break guitar that its seems superb
$4500 is , simply, significant outlay

otho daves is a good outfit, but id make certain that you have the right to try and return based on your sole opinoin and judgment if you decide to make the leap

one thing im fairly sure of, is that in ten years , there wont be any issue about recovering your price, and perhaps a bit more-break or not

[2bornot2bop]

There's also a Super 400 with a neck break.

If it was an L5 you were after there was a WesMo with repaired top damage that sold last week for $3500.

I'd hesitate buying anything with a neck repair, for as its been said, it's not worth a grand drop in price to hassle with a guitar that will be much tougher to locate a qualified buyer, if in the event I choose to sell it.

There have been several L5's sold at $4500 recently, but one has to be ready to pounce on them when they appear.

[no disclaimer]

Thanks for all the awesome input like I said at the start I had a ES 165 and it sold at a 50% reduction so I think I'm going to stick with that. Right now I have a offer at 4000.00 if he goes with that it will be NGD otherwise I think I'll pass.

[Patrick2]

[quote=stevedenver;252211]totally agree
50% off FMV is about right
why?
because of the stigma
and
because there are so many available without this issue
and
you take a chance that the repair is less than perfect-ie the angle isnt the same

otoh, if you can get a L5 studio for about 3500 or so, then selling this guitar for the same prices, seems, ....not quite right....and thus the split the difference pricing
it may simply be a great guitar, and the break may limit you to selling it only to persons who can actually play it in person (to get confidence about it-but the will likelystill try to bargain down)

i might agree if the guitar was truly rare-or otherwise unique

i have a guitar (LP spotlight special) with a break-factory repaired
the guitar plays wonderfully and made me realize that a break per se can be repaired

but
had this not been a rare LP, at a steal price
i wouldnt have touched it

the issue is simply future re-sale

ps the UV thing may/will only show the overspray area, not the actual break

Unless the area was sprayed with paint . . . the black light will go completely through the nitro shading and show every detail of the break

otho daves is a good outfit, but id make certain that you have the right to try and return based on your sole opinoin and judgment if you decide to make the leap

Exactly right.

one thing im fairly sure of, is that in ten years , there wont be any issue about recovering your price, and perhaps a bit more-break or not

No doubt about it.

[Klatu]

Makes my eyes well up with tears to hear of L5s and Super 500s with neck breaks. I know accidents happen, but do Kenny Burrell's Super 400s have any neck breaks (not a rhetorical question, I really don't know)?

[stevedenver]

anything with a change in the angle between neck and headstock has this issue potentially, maple or mahog, laminated or not

if you think of grain being parallel to the fingerboard, it gets very very short when the angle comes into play, and this is wehre the issue arise

ive seen some necks where the long grain is actually paralellel to the face of the headstock , so that it is as long as possible, but i think this is much more expensive and isnt done anymore

as they say sh*t happens-so far, im glad this type of thing hasnt happened to me, cos i would be seriously disturbed by it, regardless of prospects of superb repair-theres a lot of pressure on the nut area

i think for 4k id be pretty delighted provided everything else is great-

[floatingpickup]

I always avoid guitars with headstock repairs. If you buy a guitar without any issues, you can always sell it if you change your mind. Other minor issues are probably less of a concern, but it would probably be difficult to sell one with a headstock repair.
Keith