Fender Twin vs Super vs Deluxe Reverb

**jorgemg1984** · 08-16-2012, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Abaddon2005

Thanks for all the replies guys. I figured weight would come up as in issue. But the past few days i've just been wondering what dream rig would be if weight and such wasn't an issue, and naturally Fender amps came up. Out of these three, I've only played a twin from the 70's. One thing that bothered me (and bothers me on Princetons I've played) is the reverb.
To me that spring reverb sound is just terrible for jazz as it seems to slow down the attack/response. I've watched some demos on youtube where it seemed to be confirmed. It is of course easily fixable by simply using a digital reverb instead. I do wonder if they're ideal in how they respond in that I really enjoy the tightness and quick response of solid state amps.

I also prefer plate / hall reverbs to spring ones for jazz playing.

**jorgemg1984** · 08-16-2012, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

"But actually I thought the Vibrolux would do it... you tried it right?"

yes, a VR will be ok in a small venue w/ say, an upright bassist and light hitting drummer, but when the band starts cooking and things get louder you'll find yourself wishing you had the extra headroom.

and as I said, going up against a B-3? forget it, you'll need a Twin for sure if not micing

Yeah that's been my experience too.

**Just_Guild** · 08-19-2012, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Super v. Twin? Hernia v. Slipped disc.

I recently got back into playing guitar and Jeff, you are right on. I used to lug that Twin of mine on gigs back in the '70's. Yes, it was heavy, but so was everything else. Plus I was young and buff (so to speak, LOL).

Now, at 57, I can barely get it off the ground without a hernia or bad back! I set up a studio for myself on our third floor and the challenge was to get the Twin up from the basement. I got it up one floor then reason took the place of macho. I went outside and asked our landscaper who was mowing that day if I could borrow one of his guys to help me carry, which he did.

Well, that guy insisted on carrying it all by himself (macho). I mean, to him it didn't look that big. He hoisted it up and I thought his eyes were gonna pop out! But he insisted on carrying it. I gave him a six pack and $10.00, money well spent.

Oh, and it still sounds great.

And it will never leave that third floor under my power!!!

**Just_Guild** · 08-19-2012, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Isn't their a Hitchcock film where someone drags an amp up stairs in a dream sequence?

Vertigo, Jimmy Stewart, Kim Novak. None better.

"Alfred Hitchcock had originally opted for another location for the famous staircase sequence, but associate producer Herbert Coleman's daughter (Judy Lanini) suggested the Mission at San Juan Bautista (the location that was eventually used) as a more suitable location for filming. "
From IMDB

**TSP** · 08-19-2012, 05:04 PM

Great story! Sounds good at any volume, yes? That is my experience with Twins. You don't need to find the "sweet spot" to make it sound great. Sound good at 2, sounds good at 3,4,5 (I've never tried one past 5).

**docbop** · 08-19-2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Just_Guild

I recently got back into playing guitar and Jeff, you are right on. I used to lug that Twin of mine on gigs back in the '70's. Yes, it was heavy, but so was everything else. Plus I was young and buff (so to speak, LOL).

Now, at 57, I can barely get it off the ground without a hernia or bad back! I set up a studio for myself on our third floor and the challenge was to get the Twin up from the basement. I got it up one floor then reason took the place of macho. I went outside and asked our landscaper who was mowing that day if I could borrow one of his guys to help me carry, which he did.

Well, that guy insisted on carrying it all by himself (macho). I mean, to him it didn't look that big. He hoisted it up and I thought his eyes were gonna pop out! But he insisted on carrying it. I gave him a six pack and $10.00, money well spent.

Oh, and it still sounds great.

And it will never leave that third floor under my power!!!

Back when I used to crew on tours when playing was slow I did a Yes tour. I discovered the "spare amp" anvil case and it weighted a ton. Open the thing up and its two Twin Reverbs in one case. Basically a Twin can sub for any blown amp keyboard, bass, guitar, you name it a Twin can handle it.

**Klatu** · 08-20-2012, 02:53 PM

How long ago were you working for the "Yes" road crew? I'd be surprised if they still lug around 2 Fender Twins as backups to any instrument amp which might break down considering the breathtaking advances in technology which have given us small, powerful, and light class D amps that provide full frequency response with great headroom.

I'm actually on the fence about selling my own Super Reverb because as much as I like its tone, it's tough for me to justify the room it takes up in my living room with the availability of much smaller jazz amps that can get the job done.

**Cristhyano** · 08-21-2012, 09:49 PM

How about head and 1x12 cabinet? Wouldn't be easier to transport?

**docbop** · 08-21-2012, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

How long ago were you working for the "Yes" road crew? I'd be surprised if they still lug around 2 Fender Twins as backups to any instrument amp which might break down considering the breathtaking advances in technology which have given us small, powerful, and light class D amps that provide full frequency response with great headroom.

I'm actually on the fence about selling my own Super Reverb because as much as I like its tone, it's tough for me to justify the room it takes up in my living room with the availability of much smaller jazz amps that can get the job done.

LONG time ago, but worked other tour and many times took a Twin as a backup. It is a lot of amp for its size and guitar player's won't turn their nose up using one as a sub for their own blown amp.

**fireman12engine** · 08-21-2012, 10:03 PM

wow you roadied for yes?????...nice..... steve howe used to have 2 twins angled up at him when they did the "in the round" tour (my first concert at 13 years old).....I have a super reverb reissue and a super reissue that was modded by andy fuchs and made into a overdrive supreme, good for the jamband sound......
I play more fusion/jam/ABB stlye but am seriously getting into more the classic jazz guitar sound...I have a DRRI that i had hand wired like the vintage ones and had Mercury transformers... sounds real nice and iits great for a blues jam and i'm sure it be good for a jazz jam too....

**frogeye** · 08-21-2012, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

....I much prefer the jazz sound I can get from a Twin, or from an old 40 watt 2x12 Pro Reverb - essentially a Twin with half the power. These went through a few changes over the years (tube rectifier to ss rectifier, etc.), but are great jazz amps IMO....

Thank you, I've got one of these 2x12 Pro Reverbs albeit a SF with master volume that so many people seem needing to frown at. It's a wonderful, underrated jazz amp in my book in particular you don't have to tame the twin's raw RMS power. I bought it new around 1979 with a nice discount when they were discontinued. I've been holding on to it for all these years and while I am more often using a smaller modern amp these days I have to admit that whenever I turn the Pro Reverb on and play a few bars it's giving me the big smile on my face and it should be obvious why. I had it completley overhauled and swapped out the speakers to a set of hemp cones. Not planing on selling it anytime soon. Cheers

**Billnc** · 08-22-2012, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Klatu

How long ago were you working for the "Yes" road crew? I'd be surprised if they still lug around 2 Fender Twins as backups to any instrument amp which might break down considering the breathtaking advances in technology which have given us small, powerful, and light class D amps that provide full frequency response with great headroom.

I'm actually on the fence about selling my own Super Reverb because as much as I like its tone, it's tough for me to justify the room it takes up in my living room with the availability of much smaller jazz amps that can get the job done.

I backline some when not gigging. Mostly major shows. Twins still go out a hell of a lot, regardless of technology. Like SM58 mics still and industry standard.

**docbop** · 08-22-2012, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by fireman12engine

wow you roadied for yes?????...nice..... steve howe used to have 2 twins angled up at him when they did the "in the round" tour (my first concert at 13 years old).....I have a super reverb reissue and a super reissue that was modded by andy fuchs and made into a overdrive supreme, good for the jamband sound......
I play more fusion/jam/ABB stlye but am seriously getting into more the classic jazz guitar sound...I have a DRRI that i had hand wired like the vintage ones and had Mercury transformers... sounds real nice and iits great for a blues jam and i'm sure it be good for a jazz jam too....

I had a picture of his stage gear from the tour, but don't know where it is. i remember he had SF Fenders with black grillcloth on the cabinets. He had two maybe three amps a large one maybe a Showman and a Twin or Super. Memory not what it used to be.

**TSP** · 08-22-2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Cristhyano

How about head and 1x12 cabinet? Wouldn't be easier to transport?

I have this configuration on order. A 60 watt twin reverb style head, with a matching 1x12 semi-closed cabinet loaded with a Jensen Jet Blackbird. Under construction right now. Should be here within 2 weeks. I will post a review.

**Klatu** · 08-22-2012, 01:17 PM

Sounds a bit like a Bandmaster or Bassman.

**TSP** · 08-22-2012, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

Sounds a bit like a Bandmaster or Bassman.

Similar. It is based on a Blackface Twin Reverb circuit and layout. Voiced a little darker and using 6550 output tubes. It can also run on 6L6 or EL34 tubes.

**Cristhyano** · 08-22-2012, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by TSP

I have this configuration on order. A 60 watt twin reverb style head, with a matching 1x12 semi-closed cabinet loaded with a Jensen Jet Blackbird. Under construction right now. Should be here within 2 weeks. I will post a review.

This is what we often do here in Brazil. Importing amps and guitars is quite expensive due to taxes, so we go for the custom ones.
My guitar and amp are handmades and it's cheaper than buying a top Gibson, Fender or, in my case, a Suhr Modern. Of course mine is not really a Suhr, but it's the closest i can get and i made some changes because i don't like/need 24 frets.
A not so good looking picture: http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...80701568_n.jpg

I plan on getting another handmade head for clean in the future, mine is mainly for distortion. It's nearly impossible to get clean sounds when you play with a band, but that was the purpose.

**Klatu** · 08-23-2012, 11:37 AM

I like the look of your custom guitar. It looks like a blend of Suhr and PRS. How much does a custom guitar like this typically go for in Brazil?

**Cristhyano** · 08-23-2012, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Klatu

I like the look of your custom guitar. It looks like a blend of Suhr and PRS. How much does a custom guitar like this typically go for in Brazil?

It depends on who made it and the materials.
Mine was R$3100,00 (about 1550 dollars) at Peruzzo Custom Guitars . Caxias do Sul
It has Seymour Duncans, dunlop frets and strap lock, gotoh/wilkinson bridge, gotoh locking tuners and graphtech tusq xl nut. Mahogany/Flamed maple body with mahogany/pau ferro neck.

He makes anything you want (solid guitar and basses). There's a new model with the top from a barrel of bourbon, and wooden knobs. It's really pretty.
You can see it here:

But there are far more expensive ones (but they have specific models):
Music Maker Custom Guitars - Instrumentos Musicais de alta qualidade fabricados a mão
N.Zaganin - Custom Guitars

N. Zaganin are by far the most expensive (2x more) and they say it's the top here on Brazil.

**BEACHBUM** · 08-31-2012, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Just_Guild

I recently got back into playing guitar and Jeff, you are right on. I used to lug that Twin of mine on gigs back in the '70's. Yes, it was heavy, but so was everything else. Plus I was young and buff (so to speak, LOL).

Now, at 57, I can barely get it off the ground without a hernia or bad back! I set up a studio for myself on our third floor and the challenge was to get the Twin up from the basement. I got it up one floor then reason took the place of macho. I went outside and asked our landscaper who was mowing that day if I could borrow one of his guys to help me carry, which he did.

Well, that guy insisted on carrying it all by himself (macho). I mean, to him it didn't look that big. He hoisted it up and I thought his eyes were gonna pop out! But he insisted on carrying it. I gave him a six pack and $10.00, money well spent.

Oh, and it still sounds great.

And it will never leave that third floor under my power!!!

My man cave is on the third floor as well. I'm 64 and I'll carry the Twin if I have to but I seem to remember that it was right after lugging it up those stairs that I ran out and bought an SCXD.

**pdfiddler** · 01-12-2023, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by TSP

I love the Blackface Twin Reverb. Supers are a little lighter but not that much and have a slightly different character. Equally difficult to transport especially for us 50-60+ guys. I love the 2x12 sound from the twin and the subtly darker voice. It just sounds bigger in tone. I am solving the weight/size problem by having a 60 watt head based on a Blackface Twin Reverb circuit built and mating it with a 1x12 semi-closed cabinet. Should arrive here in a couple of weeks. I will post a review. it has 6550 tubes instead of 6L6, so might be a bit overpowered, if so i'll swap out for 6L6 to lower the wattage to 40.

you can also have a Twin cut down to a head. they are often available on ebay or the gear page.

Comins has something similar made by Alessandro and Sound Island Music in Seattle (Micheal Biller is a great guy, excellent player and fine amp builder in his own right) also makes something similar but is a combo.

The Super Reverb ri is actually (65lbs) 1 lb heavier than the Twin ri (64lbs).

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 01-12-2023, 11:37 AM

Along with pdfiddler’s weight correction note, I think there’s a much more important correction needed re: a prior post. This is not correct:

Originally Posted by bluefonia

An added sensitivity of 3 dB equals almost 100% more volume.

Doubling the power output (I.e. a 100% increase in wattage) to the same speaker will increase maximum SPL by 3 dB. This is barely noticeable in clean volume and maybe slightly more so in cleaner headroom for amps that break up only at or very close to maximum output.