Floating Pickups

[disco~juice]

Jorge, the guy that plays the Zeidler is Ralph Tope, check 16:20 in the video, I like his tone!

[steve2020]

I checked out the Jaen H232C humbucker sample-- it sounds great. Just what I am looking for. Thanks IbanezAS100 for posting it.

I currently have a Kent Armstrong (Benedetto) floating jazz pickup on my 1942 Epiphone triumph and am looking to improve the amplified sound of the guitar. Any thoughts on an amp that would approach the warm, natural tone on the Jaen sample? I have a 1979 Fender Twin currently and am looking for something more friendly to arch tops. Thanks.

[disco~juice]

Another great session with mr Ralph Tope.

Beautiful guitar, great tone, great player.

[Jabberwocky]

As an adjunct to this thread, the floating pickup on Graham Dechter's Andersen Streamline is custom made by John Carruthers of Carruthers Guitars. It is "a single coil of a unique design that has a wider string sample that provides more overtones", in John Carruthers' own words.

John Carruthers requires your guitar to make and fit the pickup on it. It costs $500 installed as at this time of writing.

[medblues]

Anybody else noticed a difference with where the floating pickup is installed (neck vs pickguard) ?

[IbanezAS100]

I checked out the Jaen H232C humbucker sample-- it sounds great. Just what I am looking for. Thanks IbanezAS100 for posting it.
I currently have a Kent Armstrong (Benedetto) floating jazz pickup on my 1942 Epiphone triumph and am looking to improve the amplified sound of the guitar. Any thoughts on an amp that would approach the warm, natural tone on the Jaen sample? I have a 1979 Fender Twin currently and am looking for something more friendly to arch tops. Thanks.

You're very welcome. Send Fernando a note re the amp used on the recordings, he's very friendly.

As a side note, he also makes his pickups in standard humbucker dimensions-I might be ordering a set for my semi.

If you do order, we obviously want a full review

[BigToe]

Anybody else noticed a difference with where the floating pickup is installed (neck vs pickguard) ?

This is intriguing. I've been making pickups for about 7 years and I've done many vintage pickup rewinds. Having said that I am by no means an expert. One thing I've learned is that a pickup has no acoustic properties. The sound you hear from a pickup is a result of magnets and coil wire responding to the movement of ferrous material within the magnetic field. Unlike a microphone that picks up air vibration and changes it into electrical energy, pickups respond to magnetic vibration. The movement of air (or the movement of objects affected by the movement of air) around a pickup is irrelevant to the sound it produces. Or SHOULD BE irrelevant! The only way a pickup would sound different if mounted on the neck or the pickguard is if in doing so you changed the properties of the magnetic field of the pickup. More specifically, if the proximity to the strings changed or the set angle of the pickup was different even slightly, or if there was extra steel added for a mounting bracket (changing the eddy currents), these would create a difference in the magnetic field and thusly and difference in output.

That was the logical explanation. That actual reason for the difference in sound probably has more to do with on what day of the moon cycle you did change and was there a goat in the room.

[medblues]

This is intriguing. I've been making pickups for about 7 years and I've done many vintage pickup rewinds. Having said that I am by no means an expert. One thing I've learned is that a pickup has no acoustic properties. The sound you hear from a pickup is a result of magnets and coil wire responding to the movement of ferrous material within the magnetic field. Unlike a microphone that picks up air vibration and changes it into electrical energy, pickups respond to magnetic vibration. The movement of air (or the movement of objects affected by the movement of air) around a pickup is irrelevant to the sound it produces. Or SHOULD BE irrelevant! The only way a pickup would sound different if mounted on the neck or the pickguard is if in doing so you changed the properties of the magnetic field of the pickup. More specifically, if the proximity to the strings changed or the set angle of the pickup was different even slightly, or if there was extra steel added for a mounting bracket (changing the eddy currents), these would create a difference in the magnetic field and thusly and difference in output.

That was the logical explanation. That actual reason for the difference in sound probably has more to do with on what day of the moon cycle you did change and was there a goat in the room.

Many old pickups and some new ones are "microphonic" so they can and do pick up acoustic waves and convert them to electrical signals that are processed by the amp. How much and how significant is a matter of preference. Modern pickups have wax etc to immobilize its moving parts to minimize or eliminate this microphonic effect.

[BigToe]

Yes! Excellent point. That's an interesting phenomenon. I've got an old Raymer archtop on the bench right now that need the pickups potted due to bad microphonics. In cases like that I can only deduce that the metal case is vibrating in sympathy with the acoustics around it and acting sort of like a microphone diaphragm creating induction through the vibrating metal and affecting the magnetic field. Potting a pickup usually gets rid of most if not all the microphonics. Perhaps in cases where a pickup is unpotted and has a metal case one would notice a more dramatic difference in the timbre of the pickup when mounting to the neck (reducing or increasing vibration - not sure), but in cases where there is a plastic cover and the pickup has been potted one might not notice any significant difference between mounting types (all other things being equal).

[avenir]

Just scored a great used D'Angelico EXL-1 with the floating KA (not handmade) pickup.... Not bad but not great either. Looking for a replacement, have searched here with good insights, but still looking for opinions.

Not going for the amplified acoustic sound per se, but closer to a darker, mounted full size humbucker; I know I won't get that exactly but want to get as close as I can.

Currently leaning toward the Zoller neck mount based on rave reviews. Any one else have thoughts/experiences?

Many thanks in advance

[jbucklin]

The Zoller would be great, I think. Also The Armstrong handmade floater gets excellent reviews.

[BigMikeinNJ]

Bartolini 5J neck mounted... Warm and fat.

[entresz]

I reckon a floating mini humbucker wound up pretty hot with A3 magnets would get fairly close sounding to a full size humbucker in sound. Pete Biltoft would be able to make something like that for you. He made the floating CC pickup I use on my Gretsch G400 and the build quality (and tone!) is absolutely wonderful.

[neatomic]

first thoughts were zoller and bartolini 5j, as well!...though both are really full range pickups, ie not inherently muddy...but with judicious use of tone and volume controls can go from classic warm jazz thunk to almost acoustic like clarity


perfect if you are a guitar knob tweaker..lots of great diverse sounds to be had..but if you are everything wide open all the time on the guitar knobs, they might be a bit too "transparent" for you...

worth the tweaking tho

cheers

[Cunamara]

Judging from the video, Fred Archtop's floating Charlie Christian pickup is the warmest floater I have ever heard. That was a fantastic sound and I am thinking hard about trying one- there is a forum thread with short video; you can also find it on YouTube by searching for "floating Charlie Christian pickup." I have a CC pickup in my Tele (made by Pete Biltoft, like Fred's) that I just love- it hits the balance of warm and clear remarkably well.

You'll also find a YouTube video showing one of Pete's mini-CC neck mounted floaters which he has fitted into a Johnny Smith sized mini humbucker cover. I did not care for that one as much but that could be the video rather than the pickup. I general I don't think mini-humbuckers are usually that warm sounding, they seem to be aimed at clarity. But my '81 Ibanez GB10's mini 'buckers sound pretty warm- they are wound very hot, though, and it doesn't seem like you can easily buy them anywhere. The Gibson BB mini is wound much hotter than the Johnny Smith and sounds warmer.

If you can fit a full size humbucker on your guitar, that would be another option. You could modify an existing one (I did this with a Classic 57, there is a thread on it) or have one made. I found that this is much fatter and warmer than the mini floater it replaced and also warmer and fatter than my Kent Armstrong handwound. To be fair, though, Kent did some work on my Classic 57- fixed a boo-boo and balanced the coils.

Kent Armstong can put a bracket on one of his PAF-0 pickups, I've seen pictures of that. Eddie Diehl put a humbucker on his 30s D'Angelico by making a little ebony spacer to go against the end of the fretboard and then there is a metal strap wrapped around the pickup and the spacer, I presume screwed to the neck like a Johnny Smith. EMG makes the 91, a full size low impedance floating humbucker that can sound quite warm; Ron Eschete uses one. And Shadow makes the full size Atilla Zoller floater. You can find examples of all of those on YouTube. And let's not forget the De'Armond 1100 reproductions.

Note these are all neck mounts except for Fred's CC. I have a theory- without any empirical evidence to back it up- that a neck mounted pickup sounds darker and fatter than a pickguard mounted one. But Fred's pickguard mounted CC makes me question that theory!

[Greentone]

I use the Zoller and I love it. I'll tell you what...that floating CC sounds pretty darned good. The handmade KA does, too.

[Cavalier]

I'd like to find something like a GB10 bridge to replace the bridge floater on my 125, anyone know who makes a hotter floater?

[Cunamara]

Pete Biltoft, Jason Lollar, Kent Armstrong could all roll one for you to your specs.

[Max405]

Try this before you swap your pickup.
get a spacer (I used one of my sons small Lego pieces, 1/8" high) and place the spacer over the screw that holds the pickup onto the top. Then reattach the pickguard with the spacer engaged. that raised the pickup just enough to make a huge difference in the sound, response and fullness of my old EXL-1DP.
if that doesn't work, a hand wound Kent Armstrong will sound beautiful. I have one on my Heritage DA New Yorker.
Joe D

[lawson-stone]

I have the hand-wound Kent Armstrong "Johnny Smith" with the 12 pole pieces on my Loar LH650. I really like the sound a lot. It might be the most distinctive voice of all my guitars. To paraphrase Joe DeNisco paraphrasing somebody else... My Loar LH650 is the poor man's Gibson L4c with floater.

[Cavalier]

Gents, thank you all, I'll look into these alternatives. I also realized I have enough space to clip and modify the tangs on a full size humbucker to fly it so I'll be trying a few things out.

[avenir]

Wow -- Lots of great input! Appreciate the tips.... I'm still leaning toward the Zoller, will post my thoughts once installed. Thanks to all again.

[JazzNote]

Bartolini 5J neck mounted... Warm and fat.

...... and a little on the darker side. Of all floating PU's this is my favorite so far, at least soundwise. Only shortcoming - no adjustable pole pieces.

[avenir]

Got the Zoller today and installed it -- winner. Sound I wanted, not a ringer for an installed humbucker but close enough. Installed low so the bottom rests on the top, but still higher than a screwed down neck PAF. Also nice with no polepieces, as the string spacing seems off (maybe an Asian spacing?), so clear across all strings, no exaggerated volumes on any string.

Overall very pleased! Thanks again to all for their input....

[jbucklin]

Good choice! Also good to know as I'm considering getting the EXL-1.