Floating Pickups

**Woody Sound** · 09-15-2014, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by RClegg

I recently played an Ibanez AF 151 with a floating pickup, and was surprised by how good it sounded in the way that guitars with floating pickups are supposed to sound. Not to over-examine a good thing, but I was surprised that a guitar with a floating pickup and a laminate top sounded that nice. Anyone else have positive experiences playing laminate guitars with floating pickups?

I thought the AF151 has a set humbucker(?) I can't seem to bring up an image of one with a floater.

**Wes Fan** · 09-15-2014, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

I thought the AF151 has a set humbucker(?) I can't seem to bring up an image of one with a floater.

Try AF151F. You'll find plenty of 'em.

**RClegg** · 09-15-2014, 04:49 PM

Thanks for all the replies, I should have specified "F" in my OP since that was the whole point! If there were some "better" hand carved archtops with floaters in the store it would make an interesting comparison, or the model without the floater for that matter.

**rsclosson** · 09-17-2014, 09:40 AM

I recently got a '96 Epiphone Emperor Regent and all the planets must have aligned correctly the day it was built. Great acoustic sound and nice fat rich amplified sound from the original floater. Best of all worlds.

**entresz** · 09-17-2014, 08:02 PM

My Hofner Senator '58 is laminated. It's one of the loudest acoustic guitars I've played. It's a bright, cutting sound that's sits halfway between a Gibson style archtop and a Selmer Macaferri. I have an old Kent (1960's Japanese made Dearmond Monkey on a Stick copy) that I put on it sometimes and the amplified sound is great. Fat, but with a bit of acoustic 'air' to it. The neck on that guitar however is massive and takes a bit of time for me to get used to.

**Bluedawg** · 09-18-2014, 12:41 AM

My personal experience with floating pickups .. laminated or otherwise ..

Is that they are extremely sensitive to your amp choice ....

I just tried out an L5 with a floater recently and I own a Le Grand (floater is stock on these) and they both sound like crap through expensive tube amps IMHO ..... very thin on top ... but not too bad on the bass end

But plug then into a nice solid state amp and they sound great ...

These are solid wood guitars, but I suspect that a floater on a laminated box will behave similarly

**entresz** · 09-18-2014, 01:00 AM

Yeah generally the floating pickups are thinner sounding, particularly the mini humucking ones (johnny smith, BJB). The old De'Armonds are quite the opposite though, they sound fat. They work well with tube amps.

**Mika L** · 09-18-2014, 03:22 AM

Have a 1967 Epi Howard Roberts with solid spruce top and with that the floater works fine. However, as regards my Yamaha AEX-1500 (laminate box with a JS style mini-hb and a piezo), I am considering replacing the floater with a fixed humbucker.
- Mika

**Bluedawg** · 09-18-2014, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by entresz

Yeah generally the floating pickups are thinner sounding, particularly the mini humucking ones (johnny smith, BJB). The old De'Armonds are quite the opposite though, they sound fat. They work well with tube amps.

I haven't had a chance to try the De'Armonds .... that sounds like a nice pickup

**2bornot2bop** · 09-18-2014, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

My personal experience with floating pickups .. laminated or otherwise ..

Is that they are extremely sensitive to your amp choice ....

I just tried out an L5 with a floater recently and I own a Le Grand (floater is stock on these) and they both sound like crap through expensive tube amps IMHO ..... very thin on top ... but not too bad on the bass end

But plug then into a nice solid state amp and they sound great ...

These are solid wood guitars, but I suspect that a floater on a laminated box will behave similarly

I own a 212 Headstrong w/ NOS tubes. Floating pup archtops are my go to. We've had entirely opposite experiences. I'd never go back to a SS amp after experiencing the few tube amps I've owned.

**Bluedawg** · 09-18-2014, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

I own a 212 Headstrong w/ NOS tubes. Floating pup archtops are my go to. We've had entirely opposite experiences. I'd never go back to a SS amp after experiencing the few tube amps I've owned.

I need to try my Le Grande in my Fender DRRI again ... I think that was pretty nice combonation last I tried it ...

It all depends on the amp in my experience so I'm not surprised there are some tube amps that work well with a floater

**rpguitar** · 09-18-2014, 01:43 PM

I won't go so far as to say that floaters categorically don't sound good with tube amps, but sometimes they definitely don't. Whereas they nearly always sound good with a high quality jazz-oriented solid state rig. For example, the Johnny Smith style pickup is a bit bright and spiky and that can get accentuated with a Fender tube setup. I have a Bill Lawrence low impedance floater with the same issue. Sounds great through my AI Clarus though.

Tube amps are less of an issue with the more modern, ballsy pickups such as the KA 12 pole PAF. That pickup has juice to spare and is sufficiently midrange heavy to compensate for being a floater. As was ponted out, the DeArmonds were introduced when tube amps were the only thing going. They are midrange heavy as well and sound excellent through a Fender. The vaunted 1100 is a bit more hifi than the FHC types, but still it doesn't depart that much from a punchy sound profile.

**entresz** · 09-18-2014, 06:50 PM

I really want to get one of the Bill Lawrence low impedance floaters.
I use his pickups in pretty much all my set in pickup guitars.

**rpguitar** · 09-19-2014, 04:48 PM

The Lawrence model I have is a somewhat ugly black boxy thing with a textured surface, the model A-400. It meters out at less than 3K Ohms which is truly low for a pickup. I had it in my parts box unused for years, because it's an oddball unit.

However, it finally proved to be the answer for one particular guitar I have whose voice is very acoustic, as the Lawrence preserves the brightness and transparency of that sound better than any other magnetic pickup I've encountered. The guitar previously had a KA PAF, which sounded great, but the sound was very electric like an L-5CES. It totally conflicted with the guitar's innate flattop-ish acoustic sound. So I'd plug in and hear a different instrument. Kinda cool, but it annoyed me.

**BeBopBeCool** · 04-26-2015, 11:32 AM

I just bought a Godin 5th Avenue and I'm happy, but I have to amplify it playing in a New Orleans style band.
I obviously thought about a floating pick up.
I found technical solutions threads but what about the choice? Which pick up?

Tnx!

**mr. beaumont** · 04-26-2015, 11:45 AM

Look at ebay for a DeArmond "guitar mike." They have just about all the sound of the coveted Rhythm Cheif at 1/5 of the price.

**Chazmo** · 04-26-2015, 03:09 PM

I have a Bartolini 5J Johnny Smith-style attached to the neck of my acoustic 5th Avenue. It sounds great. I bought a DeArmond Rhythm Chief reissue from the Guild web site and plan to have it installed on my 1951 Epiphone Zenith someday.

**DerekD** · 04-27-2015, 04:17 AM

This guy used a Benedetto S-6 in his 5th Avenue Project:

**rgiaccio** · 05-08-2015, 12:54 PM

Thomann has the new DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 in nickel or gold (I think this is the reissue used by Guild) for 118 Euro, which in my opinion is quite a good price.
I bought the gold one for my Loar LH700 but I still have to mount it.

**Gippo** · 05-08-2015, 04:16 PM

I'm choosing between benedetto s6 and Lollar Johnny Smith.

**Doctor Jeff** · 05-08-2015, 10:46 PM

I installed a GFS floater as an experiment on my 5th Avenue. I was very pleasantly surprised by how easy it was to install and how nice it sounded. Probably the cheapest floater around.

I like it so much I have no intention of replacing it with a more reputable pickup. I would recommend you give it a try.

**drewbuchan** · 05-09-2015, 04:28 AM

I have just gone through a process of upgrading an existing floating pickup on my 5th Avenue Jazz.

I decided to ask for a quote from Kent Armstrong in the UK (Kent's son Aaron).
He asked me what sound I wanted. I had difficulty describing it, so I sent a link to a YouTube video.

He quoted me £105, for a customer hand-wound bridge mounted pick-up.

I bought it, but when I gave it to a guitar tech to fit, we discovered the dimensions would require some cutting of the pick guards ... not something I wanted to do.

I called Aaron and asked him if he sold them in different sizes.
No.

But he did suggest that he could rewind my existing pickup to get the sound I wanted.
And that it would be cheaper. A lot cheaper.

So I returned the new pick-up, send my old one ... and a week later I have a Kent Armstrong pick up in the original Godin casing ... sounds bloody marvelous. Well worth the upgrade.

£60 .. for a hand wound, custom Armstrong pickup.

So my recommendation would be ... decide on the SOUND you want, not the make, find an example an ask custom pick up make to quote you. You might find it is a lot more inexpensive than you could ever have dreamed of.

I had brilliant service from Aaron. He gave me a full refund for the original custom pick-up I'd ordered. I only paid for the rewinding ... and of course Aaron's craft and talent.

**christianm77** · 05-09-2015, 05:00 AM

When you say New Orleans do you mean traditional jazz or Dr John? ;-) In the latter case, an electric might be better, but given your choice of box, implies the former...

My feeling is an acoustic sound is much better for early jazz styles.

For an acoustic sound K&K Definity works good, is inexpensive... Works best with the supplied preamp... Pretty resistant to feedback especially on a laminate guitar. Very happy with it.

+1 on Aaron - he's very helpful guy. His pickups are incredibly good value if you want a floater...

**Gippo** · 05-09-2015, 05:10 AM

I mean traditional.
Godin has a good high oriented suond, well sounding in my New Orleans project. I want to add a little volume because (although is not of this style) i will play some solo.
So i'm looking for a pickup not betraying Godin original sound.

**christianm77** · 05-09-2015, 06:53 AM

What kind of gigs are you doing or plan on doing?

Everyone who's spent time working with amplifying acoustic archtop guitars will say the same thing - There is a strong trade off between practicality (plug and go, feedback resistance) and quality of sound reproduction. The best sound will be miking up the guitar with a good condenser mic while the least acoustic sounding but most practical something like a Fishman archtop bridge pickup (I hear good things about it though.)

While we have the Fishman Aura and other advanced digital set ups for flat-tops, archtops are someway behind as we are a real niche market!

I play a lot of this kind of music using a Selmer-Maccaferri type guitar with a K&K Definity pickup and I'm pretty happy with the pickup - it's not perfect sound, but warmer than a bridge piezo and very practical. I have a feeling that this pickup would sound good with the Godin.

I used a Audiotechnica Pro 70 for a year or two - this was great if you had a competent sound engineer. Less good for pub gigs through an amp.

If you have a bit more to spend, you might want to consider the Schertler Dyn-G. I hear it's less feedback resistant though, and as I play usually with drummers, this is an issue for me.

Make sure you check out Jonathan Stout's blog - has some detailed information regarding gear. My circumstances are a bit different - I might be wrong, but I don't get the impression that Jonathan does too many bar gigs, so favours amplification that reproduces the sound more beautifully, while I'd go for practicality every time.

BTW He is a member of the forum and has posted regarding this issue as have others who specialise in acoustic pre-war style jazz guitar - the threads should be searchable...