Wooden tune-o-matic

**jazzbow** · 07-19-2012, 05:12 PM

Anyone come across one of these on their travels?

It's a wooden tune-o-matic bridge with a built in piezo. Might be a good idea for a carved archtop without the need to try and add a conventional pick up.

Here's the link for interested parties

Naturacoustic

**PTChristopher** · 07-19-2012, 05:21 PM

I am not so sure about the concrete block "test". But as another tool in the arsenal of solutions for guitars, it looks like a very good component.

Chris

**Hammertone** · 07-19-2012, 06:32 PM

Chris:
What do you think of the test with the L-5WES on the website?

**Jazzman301** · 07-19-2012, 06:50 PM

I feel like they man an L5 sound like an accoustic. That definitely took away the warm tones you associate with a Wes L5. Its not a bad sound but to me it does not sound like an Wes L5 at all.

'Mike

**PTChristopher** · 07-19-2012, 06:52 PM

You mean like my personal opinion?

It sounds great +++. Sure, I would maybe mix and EQ it a little differently, but fundamentally it sounds like God's plan for guitar sound to me. It's what flat tops wish they were, and what archtops clearly can be when you get the longitudinal vibrations (oh hell, went all tech) into the picture.

And now to devolve into my more typical tedious blather,...

I think the piezo could do with a little off the top end. I hear so much character there that you could take the 'broken glass' edge of the piezo and still have the room dead-silent listening to you.

In my opinion, archtops do one thing significantly worse than flat tops. Archtops do not really capture the string action that is a compression/expansion along the length of the string (and a magnetic PU really has no chance of capturing it). It is a miniscule part of the string energy picture, but it really comes through on flat tops (for reasons that are probably sort of obvious as the string terminates in the bridge, and the bridge stress is torsional, which is probably not a word).

Anyway, to shut up and answer the question: The L-5 sounds great with the piezo bridge, and if they were not trying to show off the bridge sound, they could easily take the edge of the piezo.

All in my irresponsible personal opinion.

Chris

**Jazzman301** · 07-19-2012, 07:04 PM

After a second listen I will say I like the tone...but it was way more piezo than was needed to my ears. I bet with some fiddling this could be an amazing sound.

'Mike

**Hammertone** · 07-20-2012, 12:25 AM

Well, the point is that it's a wooden tune-o-matic, so one can dial in decent intonation with different string sets, which is difficult to do with any individual wood compensated bridge.

The piezo seems secondary to me and could be used with any bridge.
- one can mix the piezo sound with the magnetic sound to taste.
- or not use it at all.

Seems like a win all around.

I'm not a big lover of the piezo sound on an archtop - various builders do offer it, but I could see using a kind of 10%-90% piezo-magnetic mix to capture some of the majic fizz what Chris decribes.

**Jabberwocky** · 07-20-2012, 04:04 AM

It's Youtube and with that in mind, my 2 centimes' worth: it sounds like piezo all right. A little off the top would be nice, I agree. Its claim to fame is that it comes with a wooden TOM saddle but I would rather have a custom made wooden saddle by John Moriarty for one, for my choice of string gauge. Piezos sound thin, like all metal with no wood.

For $299, what does it do that a PUTW piezo doesn't do? I'd pony up for an AMT 15G or Schertler Dyn-G or DPA 4099 before I consider one of these. For one, it is easier to move it from guitar to guitar. For another, I opine that microphones or a soundboard transducer capture much more of the essential acoustic character of an archtop and its strings. If that acoustic character is what one wants to hear, why go to piezo?

Sorry, I opine that a piezo is an antidote looking for a venom.

**Jabberwocky** · 07-20-2012, 04:09 AM

After reading the blurb, I see that its target market is really the coterie of solid-body guitar players. Or am I mistaken?

**Philco** · 07-20-2012, 05:10 AM

Just reading the instructions and it appears that for an archtop installation you need to drill 2 holes in the top of the instrument, under the bridge

That aint gonna happen.

But I would definitely like to have the option of not having the piezo.
I reckon they would sell a few to those of us wanting a bit more control over intonation.

**oldane** · 07-20-2012, 05:40 AM

.... and the bridge post spacing has to be 2 29/32" (standard Gibson spacing). Many guitars have that, but some luthier built guitars haven't, so the bridge won't be any good on the latter - unless of course one also uses another bridge base.

That said, It's not for me. I have said it before: I find that piezo PUs sound like a monkey farting in a tin can.

**Jabberwocky** · 07-20-2012, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by oldane

.... and the bridge post spacing has to be 2 29/32" (standard Gibson spacing). Many guitars have that, but some luthier built guitars haven't, so the bridge won't be any good on the latter - unless of course one also uses another bridge base.

That said, It's not for me. I have said it before: I find that piezo PUs sound like a monkey farting in a tin can.

And you, sir, have the soul of a poet.

It's been out since at least 2009 and there's precious little discussion or talk about it.

**oldane** · 07-20-2012, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

And you, sir, have the soul of a poet.

As a rule, I always stick to "smooth talking and an easy manner".

**bluefonia** · 07-20-2012, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Philco

Just reading the instructions and it appears that for an archtop installation you need to drill 2 holes in the top of the instrument, under the bridge

In fact you don´t have to drill holes.

qoute from their website:

• Installs easily on any guitar with a Tune-O-Matic style bridge

• Can be installed without drilling any holes in your guitar

• Can be used with an archtop style bridge base

If you want to use the piezo pu you can take the wires through the f-holes, not the most elegant solution but anyways a solution.

**Jabberwocky** · 07-20-2012, 09:55 AM

Perhaps you'd better read the instructions: http://www.lashbrookguitars.com/imag...ons_2_6_12.pdf .

It does require drilling through the archtop bridge base into the top of the archtop. I wonder why that is required.

I ain't messing up my L-5Wes for this thingie.

**bluefonia** · 07-20-2012, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Perhaps you'd better read the instructions: http://www.lashbrookguitars.com/imag...ons_2_6_12.pdf .

It does require drilling through the archtop bridge base into the top of the archtop. I wonder why that is required.

I ain't messing up my L-5Wes for this thingie.

You don´t allways have to do excatly what the instructions says

... Anyway, - if you read the instructions carefully it says you don´t necessarily need to drill holes.
In the manual read: Step 2. Drilling for Wiring (optional)

**Jabberwocky** · 07-21-2012, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by bluefonia

You don´t allways have to do excatly what the instructions says

...

That's a fool's errand.

Anyway, - if you read the instructions carefully it says you don´t necessarily need to drill holes.
In the manual read: Step 2. Drilling for Wiring (optional)

You may REALLY want to re-read Step 2. That's for the piezo wiring for which drilling the top is optional. Notice that drilling the top for screws under the bridge base is not stated as optional (or he would obviously have stated so as he did for the piezo wiring). I think the designer would know why better than you or I do.

Not to put too fine a point on it:

Quote. "In fig. 3a, the bridge is used with an existing arch top style base. For this installation, the mounting posts of the Naturacoustic piezo bridge MUST [emphasis mine] be threaded through the base and INTO [emphasis mine] the top of the guitar. This will require drilling two holes in the top of the guitar." Unquote.

**Duesenberg** · 07-21-2012, 07:24 AM

That was a quick match.

**bluefonia** · 07-21-2012, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

That's a fool's errand.

You may REALLY want to re-read Step 2. That's for the piezo wiring for which drilling the top is optional. Notice that drilling the top for screws under the bridge base is not stated as optional (or he would obviously have stated so as he did for the piezo wiring). I think the designer would know why better than you or I do.

Not to put too fine a point on it:

Quote. "In fig. 3a, the bridge is used with an existing arch top style base. For this installation, the mounting posts of the Naturacoustic piezo bridge MUST [emphasis mine] be threaded through the base and INTO [emphasis mine] the top of the guitar. This will require drilling two holes in the top of the guitar." Unquote.

peace to the world

**balthazar** · 07-21-2012, 01:11 PM

And if I order this bridge, what kind of concrete should I use to pour through f-holes?

**kenbennett** · 07-21-2012, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

...

Quote. "In fig. 3a, the bridge is used with an existing arch top style base. For this installation, the mounting posts of the Naturacoustic piezo bridge MUST [emphasis mine] be threaded through the base and INTO [emphasis mine] the top of the guitar. This will require drilling two holes in the top of the guitar." Unquote.

My first response to this was going to be... What I would do is shorten the mounting posts if necessary so that they don't go all the way through the bridge base and into the top. It's just a screw. You can cut it with a hacksaw.

Then I looked at the website contact page and found out that Lashbrook Guitars is in my time zone. There was also a phone number that said call Monday-Saturday.

So I called Larry Lashbrook. He said that you don't have to screw the posts into the top of your acrhtop.

He recommends it because when you change strings the bridge falls off which can cause two problems:

You loose your intonation settings
It could damage the wires

Then he said if you don't want to drill the holes in the top of your archtop, just figure out the required height of your bridge and cut the excess off the bottom of the posts.

**PTChristopher** · 07-21-2012, 02:27 PM

Hey, the hallmark a guy who regularly has to make things actually work: Find out the real story, vs. any sort of interpretive (or dumbed-down) instruction text, ...

Way to go KB.

**Jabberwocky** · 07-21-2012, 02:55 PM

Guess if you don't pin it, drop it and then break it, all you're getting from Larry is, "Did you RTFM?!! Didn't I write that you must pin it?!! So, you thought you're being smart, yeah?!!".

Is Larry going to life-time guarantee it if you don't FTFM? (Follow The F$$king Manual).

Read Page 1, paying particular attention to Line 6.

There's a good reason for dumbed-down manuals. There's a good reason for reading the effing manual and following instructions. The reasons may not be so dumb when you delve a little deeper.

And i quote: The problem of foolproof devices is that they tend to underestimate the ingenuity of a fool. Unquote.

Gotta love Larry. Couldn't have said it better meself.

**PTChristopher** · 07-21-2012, 03:06 PM

100% understood J'wock.

I suspect that you are correct about the eventual warranty issue in practical terms.

I think my remarks were poorly measured here. But I can not count the number of times I need to deviate from instructions (with associated risk) just to make tab A fit into slot B.

But yeah, your point is well taken and if the manufacturer wanted to market a hole-free version with a wiring and connector system to support such an application (like on some classical guitar piezos), that would be a different matter vs. a possibly casual comment in a phone call..

Sorry for my sloppy remark dropped into this thread.

But "F$$king Manual"? Wouldn't it be "Fu(&ing Manual"?

Chris