Anyone got a pinned bridge? Why not?

**ruger9** · 07-17-2012, 01:56 PM

My Gretsch archtop has a pinned bridge, and I think it's a dandy idea... so long as you know what gauge strings you're going to be using on it. No tape to hold the bridge in place when changing strings, no re-checking/adjusting intonation, just put the bridge in place, and you're good to go.

I think I'll pin the bridge on the Broadway... as soon as I'm sure which bridge/string combo I like. I see no reason not to? Are there any jazz boxes out there with pinned bridges?

**mr. beaumont** · 07-17-2012, 02:05 PM

i hate the idea...good way to ruin a guitar.

things change over time and can effect intonation...and what if you don't always want to use the same gauge string? hell, same brand even--- i've made small adjustments when changing brands in the same gauge.

furthermore, you might actually be inhibiting vibration, which can change the guiitars tone.

just change strings two at a time...if your bridge moves around then, get it fitted properly to the top...but pinning it down? man, i just thibk that's a terrible idea you'll regret down the line.

**ruger9** · 07-17-2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

i hate the idea...good way to ruin a guitar.

Obviously we disagree!

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

change over time and can effect intonation...and what if you don't always want to use the same gauge string? hell, same brand even--- i've made small adjustments when changing brands in the same gauge.

The pins are headless hex screws, they can be removed at will for a floating bridge, if needed. But I still say if you've decided on a bridge/string combo, you won't need to.

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

furthermore, you might actually be inhibiting vibration, which can change the guiitars tone.

This I don't buy for a second. All that force pushing down on the bridge/top, pins holding the bridge from moving aren't going to stop vibration, and might even help it, by helping the top and bridge become closer to a single unit. (But I don't think there's a sonic difference either way).

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

change strings two at a time...if your bridge moves around then, get it fitted properly to the top...but pinning it down? man, i just thibk that's a terrible idea you'll regret down the line.

Don't have to if the bridge is pinned! I submit a pinned bridge is a "better mousetrap" (again- if you know what bridge and what strings that particular guitar likes).

You do understand a pinned bridge isn't FASTENED to the top, right? It's just kept from moving around by 2 small screws... it still lifts right off...

**korey-craft** · 07-17-2012, 02:43 PM

I think its both good and bad. I think the point Mr Beaumont was trying make is if you change your positioning of the bridge for whatever reason you'll see the screw holes. That is a bigger deal to some than others. I've noticed my hands getting ever so subtley arthiritic over the last few years so string changes etc will most likely happen for me in the future. So no pinned bridges for me. I'd also need an archtop haha

**mr. beaumont** · 07-17-2012, 02:43 PM

yep.

so now you have two more holes in the top, and you need to scrape away wood from the bottom of the bridge if it ever needs to be moved.

Terrible idea.

**oldane** · 07-17-2012, 03:03 PM

Not for me either. I can't think anything it would be good for. I haven't any need/wish whatsoever to fix the position of the bridge this way - it's already held firmly in position by the string pressure. I can easily see the disadvantages, already described by Mr. B.

**Tom Karol** · 07-17-2012, 03:11 PM

I don't want to pile on, but I don't see the point of it either. I always change strings one at a time, so the bridge doesn't normally move. But even if it did move, it's no big deal to nudge it back into place. If I take all the strings off to work on the fingerboard or frets, it'll be my guitar tech doing the work, and he'll re-position the bridge using a strobo tuner when he's done.

**Spook410** · 07-17-2012, 03:19 PM

Didn't take very long to get the intonation set on my last guitar. I captured the position off the edge vs. the f holes pretty well so I can get it pretty close if it does come off for some reason.

In my misspent youth, I did have a Byrdland bridge pinned. I knew less about guitars then and probably wouldn't do it again.

**PTChristopher** · 07-17-2012, 03:36 PM

Pinning is understandably helpful in the way-quirky world of Gretsch guitars, so no surprise really. It does help keep a bridge base in place as you wail with light strings and a Bigs. And with a t-o-m bridge, minor compensation adjustments do not require moving the base.

Now use a bit heavier strings, get rid of the Bigsby, maybe stop the Townshend-style windmill strumming during "Stella by Starlght" and all of the sudden a pinned bridge seems limited in value.

The set screws into the top will of course work far better with maple than with spruce (laminated or otherwise).

As for fashionability? It's argyle socks I guess.

But yeah, with a maple top, a Bigsby, light strings, and a heavy playing style - it is understandably appealing.

In my opinion.

Chris

**customxke** · 07-17-2012, 03:39 PM

I don't see any benefits (for me) and a ton of drawbacks. YMMV, IMHO, YMCA, PB&J

**amusiathread** · 07-17-2012, 03:57 PM

With practice, you can fix the intonation of a floating bridge in about 2 minutes. It's sooo easy. I don't think I'd drill holes into a guitar to save 2 minutes.

**ruger9** · 07-17-2012, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by oldane

Not for me either. I can't think anything it would be good for. I haven't any need/wish whatsoever to fix the position of the bridge this way - it's already held firmly in position by the string pressure. I can easily see the disadvantages, already described by Mr. B.

Except when you change the strings, unless you change them one at a time, I guess. Which I see as an unnecessary PITA. And I posted what's it's "good for" above. You may not see the benefit, but it certainly exists.

I also do see the "drawback" if you want to change string gauges. Luckily for me, I find what a particular guitar (and I) like, and I stick with it. No problem.

Sometimes I think jazzers are simply too hung up on tradition?

**ruger9** · 07-17-2012, 04:09 PM

Ah yes... the Bigsby. I had totally forgotten about that (I use it, but I never think about using it)... that is undoubtedly why the pinned bridge came into being.

That being said, having now owned both... a pinned archtop and a floating archtop, I see only benefits and few drawbacks with the pinned system. I prefer it. Doesn't mean it's for everybody of course. But when Chris posted about the Bigsby, the light went off... that's why some Gretsches are pinned. I'll tell you this- I wouldn't have a Bigsby without it. (but then I'll bet most people here would grimace at the idea of a bigsby on a guitar used to play jazz anyway... again, tradition...)

**PTChristopher** · 07-17-2012, 04:41 PM

>>> again, tradition...

As for the blind-stupid following of custom in guitars, I think that Jazz players are far from the leaders.

In my opinion, it is not "tradition" to reject adding a patently useless pair of set screws to a given guitar.

Just because it works for some players, under some conditions, and often on a rather quirky guitar design, does not mean that the ultimate truth and value of the pinned bridge has been discovered - now to be revealed to us, the unknowing.

It is seemingly "tradition" to take a judgmental stand on a given guitar feature (the pinned bridge in this case) with no sense of its basic origin. It happens. But sometimes a little look into who does what and why can be nearly interesting.

In my opinion.

Chris

**ruger9** · 07-17-2012, 05:06 PM

"patently useless"? Don't get carried away. As stated, it sets intonation for a set gauge of strings and bridge. That's a very good thing in a gigging guitar that has it's strings changed frequently. Especially if those string changes have to be done in a hurry. It's quicker, easier, and faster than taping down the bridge. And if the guitar has a bigsby, your "patently useless" charge becomes absurd.

Oh yeah- and it saves tape.

BTW- no need to get in a huff over the use of the word "tradition"... just because some people lean "traditional" and some lean "modern" (Martin vs Taylor comes to mind), neither is "wrong." And I did know the Bigsby was the reason for the pinned bridge on the Gretsches- I had just forgotten, living with the Grestch for so long. So don't think I'm passing judgement- and neither should you. If you or anyone else wants to stick with tradition for traditions sake, be my guest. And I'll go modern for function. Everybody wins.

In my opinion.

**PTChristopher** · 07-17-2012, 05:14 PM

Thanks for the information; I'll consider myself thus improved.

**customxke** · 07-17-2012, 05:19 PM

Almost all of my guitars have Bigsbys. My handle on most other forums is "Bigsby'd". I like me a Bigsby. I don't think the Bigsby is the reason for pinned bridges on Gretsches. Lots of guitars have Bigsbys with floating non-pinned bridges. I think the pinned bridges are in response to heavy strumming/palm muting/Johnny Ramone'ing the hell out of your guitar. FWIW.....its not a really great idea to take all of your strings off at once during a string change, unless you're going to reintonate your guitar.....taking all of the strings off will change your neck relief, even after restrung....that's why I change mine one at a time. (Time spent changing strings is like a pie....doesn't matter how much you slice it up...its still the same time...except it doesn't taste like pie, regardless of how you slice it)

**ruger9** · 07-17-2012, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by customxke

Almost all of my guitars have Bigsbys. My handle on most other forums is "Bigsby'd". I like me a Bigsby. I don't think the Bigsby is the reason for pinned bridges on Gretsches. Lots of guitars have Bigsbys with floating non-pinned bridges. I think the pinned bridges are in response to heavy strumming/palm muting/Johnny Ramone'ing the hell out of your guitar. )

Right, but I think ALL the pinned Gretsches have Bigsbys. For exactly that reason.

Johnny didn't play a Grestch, at least not that I can find?

**Hammertone** · 07-17-2012, 05:31 PM

And now for another Hammertone storytime moment.....

I remember the first time I played in public like it was yesterday. It was 1976. It was an evening of blues, latin music and easy jazz (meaning no rehearsal), and took place in the Lowell House common room. I was a mere pup, a callow sophomore. I was powering my roommate's 1974 Ampeg VT-40 (a wonderful amp, we should really get it back up and running) with an early '60's Epiphone Sorrento (similar to a Gibson ES-125TC, but with a single Gibson mini-humbucker, and a wonderful guitar, later traded away for an even more wonderful '53 Hofner 464).

I was understandably nervous and had a proper amount of stage fright for a neophyte, but as the evening wore on and the @ 6 piece band powered its way through tunes like Sunny, I found my groove (Santana meets Martino). I remember the bass player looking over at me with a huge grin on his face, from the sheer joy of making good music.

I was probably using a set of .11s with the Epi, and I can also remember clear as a bell doing double stop bends with such energy that the entire bridge slid side to side as those adrenaline-fuelled bends were being executed.

Nothing wrong with pinned bridges for archtop guitars IMO.

Funny thing is, I have never been nervous about getting on stage to play music since that night.

**customxke** · 07-17-2012, 05:34 PM

No....I dont believe JR ever did...but more than a few modern Gretsch players seem emulate his refine technique, and delicate musical sensibilities.

**Tom Karol** · 07-17-2012, 07:23 PM

@ Ruger9: I don't understand why you think that changing strings one-at-a-time is a PITA. I've always done it that way. But that's just me.

**PTChristopher** · 07-17-2012, 07:30 PM

I understand if one wants to emphasize certain things, like changing strings all at once. It is just not important to many players for some reason.

I suppose the actual Ruger 9 is an automatic handgun - and emphasizes rapid and automated mechanics. So to each their own for what is important I guess.

**ruger9** · 07-17-2012, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

I understand if one wants to emphasize certain things, like changing strings all at once. It is just not important to many players for some reason.

I suppose the actual Ruger 9 is an automatic handgun - and emphasizes rapid and automated mechanics. So to each their own for what is important I guess.

Nice... so your political stripes come out... I'm not going there...

A Ruger 9mm is a SEMI-automatic handgun, for those less learned. A LEGAL weapon. But I'm not here to discuss political issues.

**ruger9** · 07-17-2012, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Karol

@ Ruger9: I don't understand why you think that changing strings one-at-a-time is a PITA. I've always done it that way. But that's just me.

I've always removed all my strings, because I always clean the fretboard on string changes... I have body chemistry that leaves it quite dirty, apparently.