Anybody know anything about old Epi "New Yorker" pickups?

[ruger9]

I'm intrigued by the old Epiphone "New Yorker" pickups... I thought, just by looking at them, that they were mini-humbuckers. But some research reveals that they were single-coils. So now I'm VERY intrigued... anybody have any info on these things? I've googled but come up with almost nothing.

Just wondering what these things were like... fat/thin? Weak/hot? Do most people use them in their vintage Epis or replace them with something else?

[wintermoon]

typically thin sounding and not very highly regarded
Epi's electrics were all plywood guitars which probably didn't help.

[ruger9]

typically thin sounding and not very highly regarded
Epi's electrics were all plywood guitars which probably didn't help.

I've read the Epi electric archtops were carved, and sounded excellent acoustically, and are highly regarded...?

[wintermoon]

all the Epi electrics were plywood

[ruger9]

all the Epi electrics were plywood

Yep- I've been misinformed. Thanks for the correction.

Now, back to the pickups...

For plywood guitars with crappy electronics, they're still going for 3K+.

[fws6]

As many luthiers in the past up to today (Guild, Gretsch, Daquisto, Sadowsky, Borys... to name a few) Epiphone did make the electric archtops only in plywood and the acoustic archtops only in carved woods. Not because they were cheaper but because they found that the more sensible approach !

To carve a top and then cut a hole in it for a pickup is not very wise structurallty unless you drastically reinforce the bracing (hence an electric Gibson L5-CES has little to do with the tone of the acoustic L5. they're both fine instruments but not the same on the inside at all)

And besides plywood will be resistant to feedback more when amplified loudly.

So this choice was not made for the money but on PURPOSE, from a technical / musical perspective.

The old electric Epiphone 's like the Zephyr Deluxe Regent's you are probably referring to are 3k and well worth that kind of money. They are stunning and very well built instruments.

Now as for the ToneSpectrum pickups (they were never called NY pickups by epiphone themselves) - indeed these arent of the same quality of other makers of that same era (Gibson P90, DeArmond, Franz etc.)

Some sound very well but they can also be weak and sometimes irreliable. Great variability from one guitar to another. So pro players often have them replaced with Gibson mini humbucks which will fit right in an Epiphone without having to rout the cavities. Duke Robillard is the best known player having done this on his main instrument.

Here's my old ZDR that had the most flamey wood on the back and neck I ever saw. It was gorgeous.

[fws6]

Dukes ZDR with the Gibson mini humbucks (now owned by arlen Roth)

[paulkogut]

I just had a pal put his 1953 Emperor Zephyr Regent up for sale. Check it out here Killer Vintage - 3201 Ivanhoe Saint Louis, MO 63139 - 1953 Epiphone Zephyr Emperor Regent

[ruger9]

Thanks for that!! That's more info than I could dig up in a couple hours of googling. Great info.

I just love these guitars. I don't really know why, I've never played one, never even seen one in person, but I have heard them, and they just look so cool. Shame those ToneSpectrum pickups were junk, the bakelite mounts really add to the look of the instrument, imo. Duke's mini's (the rings) throw it off a bit. lol

So, I'm guessing most people who buy these things are either swapping the pickups out for minis, or they are just buying them as a collector? Do the Gibson minis even sound anything like the ToneSpectrums? Or is it simply a matter of "they fit with no modification and sound good"?

[AlohaJoe]

Or is it simply a matter of "they fit with no modification and sound good"?

That's the main reason IMO. The Gibson minis are OK but nothing to write home about. I've played a few old Epi's... the ToneSpectrum pups may have each been a little different, but the ones that sounded good, sounded great! If you can get your hands on one try it out and see what you think. They seem to range from DeArmond-ish to kinda thin but I wouldn't say any of them were bad. The one I LOVED was on this Zephyr at archtop.com (here in town for me)... I called back the next week but it was gone.



Another option if you end up w one you're not crazy about; I had Lindy Fralin re-wind an old DeArmond a few years ago, and I'm sure it could be done w a TS too (to your specs)... not too expensive either.

[fws6]

Sure I have seen various solutions. some people even have a mini humbucker placed in the actual bakelite tonespectrum mounts. Not a perfect fit though

and I am sure you can have any pickup rewound / potted / even te magnet replaced to be sounding exactly like you want

Moreover as AJ sais, you cannot simply classify them just as being 'junk. Some can be really good. They are just very variable. So you would have to play the guitar in person.

[Franz 1997]

The Epi ''tone spectrum'' pickups were single coil units, and non-adjustable apart from the small screws. Typically they have a dc resistance of around 4k, although it can vary. The Gibson mini-HB units are of course double coil humbuckers, so they won't sound the same. Apparently during the 50s Epiphone used DeArmonds and 'Tone Spectrum' pickups interchangeably on the same models, including ZDLs.

As a matter of interest, apparently in the late 1930s Epiphone used a bar pickup very similar in design to the Gibson Charlie Christian unit.

[ruger9]

Apparently during the 50s Epiphone used DeArmonds and 'Tone Spectrum' pickups interchangeably on the same models, including ZDLs.

As a matter of interest, apparently in the late 1930s Epiphone used a bar pickup very similar in design to the Gibson Charlie Christian unit.

I wonder if the DeArmonds sounded anything like the Tone Spectrums? I realize back then they probably didn't give it much thought, they simply used whatever they had on hand.

[Franz 1997]

There would have been some differences; the DAs would have had direct magnets like strat pickups, and the coils typically would have had 2 or 3 times the dc resistance of the Epi pickups. But IMO pickups are only a small part of the overall sound variables on any electric guitar.

I agree, they probably used whatever they had to hand at the time. How times change..no boutique pickup market then!!

[tomatmojotone]

I have attached a couple of photos of the Epis I am rewinding for a customer.
Sorry but I had already removed the old windings before I found this post.
The main problem with these is the horizontal mounting of the magnet. It is not a very efficient design.
I usually build a new pickup to mount with the magnetic field and coils in the vertical position inside the old
cover so it looks stock but sounds like a Dearmond. They wind up in the 10-12k range.

[ruger9]

Neat! When you say "it sounds like a Dearmond"... do you mean stock, or when you're done rewinding it? Does it sound like a Dearmond originally?

[tomatmojotone]

That is after I modify them. I use the same magnet material and wire that came on the Rowe/Dearmonds. The ones found on old Harmonys.
The original version of the Epi sounds a little weak and thin to me but some people do prefer the stock version.