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Tilting it back is a good idea. Fender's tilt back legs are one of the best things ever invented.
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12-21-2016 09:53 PM
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John Pisano also played for Sinatra pretty often.
Originally Posted by goldenwave77
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The Classic 30 can cover anything from clean to crunch and sound good doing so unless you need tons of clean headroom (which you don't). I have the Delta blues (15" speaker version). I'm am bias however because I prefer EL84's.
They're also very reasonable in price and made in the USA!
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Originally Posted by helios
I'm seriously considering returning the HRD and getting one of these.
I should mention that I have a Super Champ that I use for smaller stuff and I love it. One of the reasons I'm thinking about the Supersonic.Last edited by NylonJazz; 12-21-2016 at 10:27 PM.
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Before I do anything I'm going to see if I can get that bit of hair I'm looking for with the HRD's second channel. If I don't like it or I can't get it easily, I'll consider another amp. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of using an amp stand or a chair regularly. If I did I'd pick a smaller amp and get it off the floor.
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Originally Posted by ingeneri
I don't know if the sound is boxy but it's definitely brittle. I'd like to believe the speaker just needs to break in but I don't know if I want to wait to find out.
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I owned a HRD for a while that had been modded -- and apparently to the point that it really couldn't play loud & clean anymore. I never did get along with the tone controls all that well, and then when I played an outdoor gig with it, there was not enough clean headroom -- I was disappointed. It sounded OK, but I was happy enough to send it on to a new owner
I'm a big fan of the 5751 tube in the V1 position -- my very favorite!
Also, I think the Peavey Classic 30 is very very good. Seems like a very practical solution to me.
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My 2 cts in this discussion (I have a '93 Blues Deluxe, very similar to the Hot Rod Series, your complaints sound very familiar to me):
First of all: use the drive channel!
The drive-channel sounds less boomy on the bass and you can set the master volume pretty high and keep the volume (preamp) lower so when you turn up the volume on the guitar you will get some hair on your tone.
Second: use your mid knob. You might prefer the sound of the amp with the mids all the way up and treble and bass almost closed. Another setting that worked on my Blues Deluxe is to put all tone controls on 10 (fully open) and set everything from the guitar. You (kind of) bypass the tone-stack that way
Third: tilting the amp back works! I mounted tilt back legs for that. It also decouples the amp form the floor somewhat, and gives less problems with boomy/uncontrollable bass.
Fourth: experimenting with different types of preamp tubes is a relative cheap option to alter the amps behavior. A 12AY7 in V1 does good things. A 12AT7 in V3 makes the amp behave a bit 'neater'. It won't hurt anything, but be careful pulling and inserting the tubes: they are directly soldered to the PCB and too much pulling and re-inserting can lead to broken contacts (I already had to resolder the tube-sockets to the PCB).
Lasty: yes cleans are brittle and bass is boomy. It's the nature of the circuit and the used cap and resistor values. The Blues/Hot Rod series is a bit of a strange mix of the classic blackface circuit, mixed with some Bassman/Marshall elements that sound good on low volume but screw things up when the volume levels get higher. In my opinion the things mentioned above help, but will never completely satisfy you, I think. My Blues Deluxe is now one of my favorite amps, but not after I altered and modded the circuit quite extensively to change it back to Fender's classic AB763 circuit that the Blackface Twin and Deluxe Reverb use, but I can imagine you don't want to go that route (although it cost me maybe $10 in parts, it's a lot of labor and therefore it hardly pays off to have it done for you, I did it myself). Reading your posts I wonder if the Classic 30 won't be a better amp for you: EL84 have a smoother transition from clean to overdrive and you might like the ‘hair’ they add better.
That all being said: with what I did to my Blues Deluxe it has become one of the best amps I have with a great tone and good compromise of size/power/weight. If you are interested I can provide you more details and a schematic. Here is a quick impression after most of the mods:
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Have you considered inserting a power attenuator between the amp and speaker? Something like the Iron Man II mini from Tone King? Not a cheap approach but very efficient in giving full-blown tone at significantly lower levels
Ironman II Mini - Tone King Amplifier CompanyLast edited by Ray175; 12-22-2016 at 08:49 AM.
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Thanks to everyone for the input. After trying to make it work last night and this morning, I've decided to return the HRD and go for the Classic 30. I'm hoping it will be more manageable and give me the options I'm looking for (less brawn and more finesse). I'll let everyone know how I'm getting along with the C30 once I receive it next week.
Merry Christmas to everyone!
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Sounds to me like you have the wrong amp. Wrong in a couple ways. Those HRDs are useful, but tend to too loud and lack a certain warmth and character. One of the posters here mentions the Peavey Delta Blues. If your budget is on the low side, that's the one to get. For the money, a worthy, warm clean. Between speaker size and how the amp is voiced, I suspect it would work much better in your situation. Just my opinion here: never met a dirt channel I liked. Small pedal board solves those problems. For me, always on clean boost, set low, then an OD pedal to taste. With reverb, as you can almost always do better these days with a pedal than the in amp verb.
These amp types work so well live, at least for my needs:
The deluxe reverb class amp. I had both the vintage blackface and a DRRI. It's the 6v6s and the 20 watt power range that is the appeal here. Not so much the mid scoop voicing. One great alternative in this class is the Gries 20. Few if any around use, no longer in David G's amp lineup. Same wattage and tubes as the DR, one channel, way, way better reverb, well voiced master volume. Not as mid scooped as the Fenders, much more versatile due to the MV. The other alternative is not cheap, also maybe not a right format for you. Pure 64 Mean Streets, head/cab. Same 20 watts, 6v6s. Louder and cleaner than the DR. No MV, but this perfect, beautiful sound at any volume level. May be the best small amp I've heard.
The Vibrolux reverb class amp. Never had the original, always wanted one. Along with the Pro Reverb, these have the best "edge" sound, the smoothest overdrive of the vintage Fenders. In pursuit of the VR, I ended up with an Allen Encore. If you have the bucks (or care to build), this would be a near perfect antidote to the HRD. 35 watts, can take 6L6s or 6v6s. Mine is head/cab, has 6L6s. Two knob reverb, world class bias vary trem built in. A very effective master volume, and "raw" knob, which dials out the tonestack. incredibly versatile due to the MV and raw knob. Smaller gig, lower volume, roll MV down and raw up to 1.5. Bigger gig, roll MV back up. It has the warmth and depth of sound missing on the modern fenders. Come in various formats, including 1x12. Hard to find one to try, so worth the trouble. They sometimes come up on the used market. A similar choice, guessing just as good, would be a used Gries 35. David Gries' take on the VR. Jack Zucker did some great clips using this amp. It's similar to the Allen Encore minus the Raw knob.
MDLast edited by mad dog; 12-23-2016 at 08:25 AM.
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Oops, sounds like I'm too late, but I would have recommended keeping the amp, Swapping out V1 and setting an Xotic RC Booster on top of the amp... great pedal, crank up the gain and drop the output, mess with the EQ, warms things up in a heartbeat, one one of those "am I crazy to leave this on all the time?" pedals. I always vote for more headroom. Some combination of good tubes, eq, volume pedal and touch, along with the occasional magic pedal should allow for good tone at low volume.
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FWIW, Sinatra had many guitarists over the years, but I believe that his "regular" guy was Al Viola. Al Caiola was also a great guitarist--and he may have played with Old Blue Eyes--but he was mainly a session guy.
Regarding amp choice, you want to keep it light when you are playing rhythm--which you have already figured out. You might be better served by an amp that gets more of a midrange emphasis, rather than a Fender blackface "scoop" tone. The HRD clean tone is rather fashioned after the sound of 60s Fender amps such as the Deluxe Reverb and the Super Reverb. It de-emphasizes the midrange. By comparison, the old Fender tweed amps get more of a midrange-based tone and sound great for jazz.
You can use your HRDIII on the clean channel to mimic the tweed sound, somewhat, by pulling the bass control down to around 1, the treble down to 1-2, and pushing the mid to around 7-8. Try it.
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I play rhythm in a 20 piece bigband.
Like you I tried a lot of 30-40W amps and they are just waaay too loud for a big band. That is primairily what drove me to develop the Elektra amps.
It depends a bit on the kind of venue you play in ofcourse.
For indoor gigs the my 15" Combo is already more than sufficient. The power and projection are more than sufficient to reach the rest of band, also at the far end of the stage.
My top with 4x10 is overkill I found out last week when we were recording a demo for the band.
For outdoor gigs I usually just take the top and plug it into whatever backline cab or combo they have there. Usually a Blues Deluxe or a Twin Reverb. If I'm am lucky, they have a 4x12 marshall stack. Those 4x12s give great projection.
Both my top and combo ar around 16W. It's all I need with the big band.
Last edited by Michiel; 12-24-2016 at 07:49 PM.
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Well, the Classic 30 arrived earlier this week and I've been playing it at home. It definitely sounds different - more mid-heavy, it seems. It was rattling something fierce when I first played it so I tightened every screw I could and that helped, although there's a tube filament rattle going on when certain notes are played (first G, then Bb). The cleans are usable and not harsh at all - warm sounding with breakup when I need it. I had it pretty loud and not once did my ears bother me.
The true test is tonight at the gig. NYE party for about 100 people.
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I have a HRD, and have similar issues, luckily i don't use it often enough to worry about it.
I was curious about the issue and wanted to know for future, if I ever needed to use it what I could do.
I found this video called 'Improve your fender for under $10' by Phillip McKnight.
here's the direct link
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...eZ1Ct69MMuvlfA
He further explains the fix of the issue,
Good Luck!
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Hi!
I am also playing in a classic big band with similar repertoire. The band has a Line6 amp, which I dislike a lot, so when we go to paly somewhere, I bring my own amp, a 86s Japanese Roland Cube Orange. It has 60 watts but is more than enough, very good jazz tone, and has overdrive on its panel. Its lightweight, also.
I'd suggest You picking one of those, ahh, and one more pro: its very cheap...
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First off let me say you are covering a lot of styles with that Ibanez, good going.
I fix a fair number of Peavey amps and acquire a few including the Classic 30 and I'm not too fond of Peavey designers.
Protected xformers opening and connecting cables are an issue, and pcb cracks make them (to me) better suited for studio, home or house amps that do not get moved than for a gigging player.
Maybe other players are not as picky as I am but I have yet to hear an amp with a "crunch" or "OD" circuit that is usable. IMO wading through the pedal market to find one is more likely to succeed than finding an amp with an internal OD circuit that works well unless you go with a SS modeling amp like a Line 6.
Even Marshall hasn't come up with an OD circuit that I like. But... their little JTM series do a fair job of leaning on the tubes at low volumes to get crunchy, but are less clean than a Fender would be.
I think the amp you have is pretty usable, and faling covering all of your needs native your best bet may be finding a suitable pedal.Last edited by GNAPPI; 01-01-2017 at 07:37 AM.
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Sorry for veering off topic for a moment, but GNAPPI's comment about not like amp crunch got my head scratching ?!? Originally Posted by GNAPPI
I thought tube amp distortion was "the thing". This got me curious what OD pedals you like.
I've got a Fulltone Plimsoul that does the job pretty well for me, but what really impresses me is the distortion from my Rivera Venus 3 amp! Also, I owned a Marshall Class 5 some years ago that made great sounding distortion. I kinda wish I'd kept that one.
I'm not doing to full grind these days, but a bit of hair on some cleans sure can be great. BTW, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious about your ideas on distortion . . .
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On the Peavey Classic 30 the lead channel kills the bass and boosts the treble. Some forum poster somewhere said that it is basically a copy of the Ibanez tube screamer. I don't care for it. The clean channel goes into tube distortion when it's volume is opened 50% or more. Very pleasant but also quite loud. Originally Posted by Longways to Go
Sorry for veering off topic for a moment, but GNAPPI's comment about not like amp crunch got my head scratching ?!? I thought tube amp distortion was "the thing". This got me curious what OD pedals you like.
I've got a Fulltone Plimsoul that does the job pretty well for me, but what really impresses me is the distortion from my Rivera Venus 3 amp! Also, I owned a Marshall Class 5 some years ago that made great sounding distortion. I kinda wish I'd kept that one.
I'm not doing to full grind these days, but a bit of hair on some cleans sure can be great. BTW, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious about your ideas on distortion . . .
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My only thought is a stompbox. In a big band, I assume you have a music stand? So, my theory is that it might be possible to affix a stompbox to the stand. Even the back of the stand. Then, when it's time to solo, press the button.
The stompbox might be nothing more than a preamp with a drive and volume control. Just hit the input of the HRD a little harder. There are some really small ones that might even fit comfortably on a guitar strap.
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Spark Mini! Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Originally Posted by GNAPPI
The Ibanez is a great guitar. With the Super 58 Custom pickups and the coil tapping, I'm able to get anything i need. It's perfect for a "one guitar" gig, which I find myself in more often than not.
Last nights gig went very well. The Classic 30 was plenty loud and not overpowering. I was able to turn the amp up to about 7 and get that nice tube overdrive and work my volume to clean it up for quieter stuff. We played the standard set of big band tunes, some Latin pieces, and rock/blues songs. For the rock stuff, I found myself using the clean channel with the boost feature to give me some breakup for songs like Jump Jive and Wail and What'd I Say. I used the crunch channel for songs like Old Time Rock and Roll and Knock On Wood.
The C30 worked. Sound-wise, it's very different from the Fender but much more useable overall. I think it's a keeper! I knew it was pretty compact, but I was surprised when I realized it's only slightly larger than my little Super Champ X2. Still, the C30 is very powerful and projects well. The amp didn't buzz and the tube rattle was not noticeable at gig volume (although I still plan to look into the tube rattle issue).
I'm really not a pedal guy. I've consciously avoided diving into the black hole of effects. I have a Boss ME70 that I use for church gigs and that's only when absolutely necessary. That being said, I finally decided to buy a delay to use for the rockabilly slap back thing, but for the rest of what I do in a big band, a good channel switching amp works for me as is.
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Even though Pat Martino used mostly a solid state Roland Jazz Chorus. If you crank up the middle 10+. I've always used warm and unnff! Fender tube amps currently a modified George Benson model Blues Deluxe 3. That has a 12AT7 in the first position for clean tone especially with humbucker pickups. The bass and treble strong so I keep the treble below 3. Bass 3 to 6. Middle 10 to 12 with a 2 to 4 Classic Fender spring reverb. Presence is your call. But for classic clean archtop hollowbody guitar sound like Wes Montgomery who also played Fender tube. There is nothing better for jazz. Literally.
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I know these amps don't get a lot of love but I was always happy when I used one as a backline amp. IMHO they have nice clean and warm tone. The lows can be a bit overwhelming so if I used one I always dialed them completely out – even with a telecaster. Other wise it's straight ahead, just dial in the amount of high and middle frequencies you like, ignore the bright switch, add a little reverb to taste and go ahead.
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