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And well when recording it generally sounds more unbalanced than when I play straight. That is the lower strings are more muddy and the higher ones are thinner. Don't think this can be solved with adding more tone. It seems to simply make the higher strings sound more trebly and pointy. Cutting some lows on the EQ is more likely a way to go.
And I'm not entirely unhappy with my sound. It IS better than ever. I would like the higher strings to be a bit fatter. And yes I've been considering buying strings as units rather than sets and start playing with 0.013-0.050 instead of 0.012-0.052 as I do now.
I am still wondering whether it is normal that the "default" sound of this pup is SO trebly. I mean before I installed this greasebucket tone circuit I couldn't get ANY decent sound out of it no matter what I did because when I reached a point where the highs had been cut enough it sounded as if the amp was wrapped in plastic.
Anyway I'm wondering if I simply ended up with an extremely bright pup when I was actually hoping for a dark one. I mean even with the tone knob at 4 (out of 10) it still sounds nasty and gritty to me.
Don't know if this is normal or not..
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03-19-2012 01:36 PM
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The Grant Green Tone:
Amp - treble and bass: off ; mids: far up but not distorting
Guitar: ES 330 with p-90's; other big jazz boxes with floating pick ups
A lot of people think that the trad jazz tone is a floating hb attached to the end of the neck on a 3 & 3/8th deep, single cutaway guitar - but then the most often used session ' jazz ' guitar was the 175d and look where the front pup is located. I've seen a number of name players use a Fender Twin live - but then they used to be the most readily available amp you could rent. It's the subtle, most often overlooked little things that in combination create a preferred tone
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Depends on the amp. If you have a 2x12 it'll pump out more bass than a 1x10 at the same settings. And some amps are naturally bright, fenders in particular.
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Any good amps gave us good sound by how to use.
1. Listen to the direct sounds at the front of the speaker units.
2. Guitar ; Volume 8. Tone 10, Neck end Picking, Testing phrase and chords.
3. Master (if has) ; Max
4. Volume ; 2.2?3 (Minimum 1 type)
(some types by GAIN, ex ; Peterson P-100G ? Gain 1?2, Polytone Mini brute ?Sonic Circuit Mode Gain 1?2)
5. Bass ; Turn up to the moderate fat, not too much. ex ; '65 RITR 3, '74 SFTR 1(Min), JC-120 0, '66 BFVR 3.5
6. Middle (if has) ; 6
7. Treble ; A touch for coloring, ex ; Fender 1?2, JC-120 2
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If you have a different room you will have a different sound - and listening in front if the speaker will give you an on-axis sound but the audience will probably get an off-axis sound so maybe it's not a good idea to make your sound in front of the amp.
I usually have treble on zero, mids flat and the bass up until boominess appears - but that can change with amps / rooms. The bass is the hardest part usually because if the boomy sounds come too son you end up with a thin sound on the upper register.
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direct sounds at the front of the speaker units are most important.
ex.1 ; at the home by low volume without room acoustic.
check the mic point sounnd for PA.
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hello,
i´ve tried to setup my fender reverb deluxe and the gibson ES-355 for a jazz sound.
(just playing around)
Attached a clean sound (without reverb) ; recorded with a Sure SM57
The Gibson:
Neck Position; Vol. 10; Tone 10
The Fender Deluxe:
Vol. 2; Bass 4 ; Treble 2
What do you think ? I will appreciate your comments ....
thx!Last edited by JazzHifi; 10-06-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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Put a darker sound on guitar pick up.
Experiment with tone control on guitar.
Volume guitar a little low/i.e. 8/.
You have great guitar and amp...:-)
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Hi Chris, thanks for for helpful comments!
Actually I´m a little bit frustrated because I think i cannot find the right sound with the new 355. I want to have this classic jazz 355 sound.
Yesterday i thought it is maybe the guitar? Not well built ?
You´ve talked about a darker sound?
Okay... i will but the volume on guitar to 8 and the
tone control to 7,5.
That´s what it sound....Last edited by JazzHifi; 10-06-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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That move on the volume and tone knobs helped a lot (for my taste). I would turn the reverb on... not much but a little.
Originally Posted by JazzHifi
Is there anything specific you don't like on the sound?
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Bass strings sounds more jazzy than trebble. Originally Posted by JazzHifi
what kind of strings do you use?
try tone guitar at 2 or 2,5 and a little more bass on amp.
may be use different picks...heavy 1-2 mm.
cheque a sound playing only fingers/right hand to eliminate treblle.
may be this help...:-)
best
kris
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Do you guys adjust the screws on your pickups? Herb Ellis talks about this in his DVD. While I don't use the exact technique he describes, it did help me to get a more 'even' tone out of my guitar which made it a lot easier to tune my amp to perfection.
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It is good for changing balans of volume of each string but not for the sound... anyway sometimes if you put neck pick up a little down you can get more acoustic/wooden /sound.
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Originally Posted by kris
It is good for changing balans of volume of each string but not for the sound... anyway sometimes if you put neck pick up a little down you can get more acoustic/wooden /sound.
Are you sure? IMO you actually can taylor your sound varying both adjustments: PU height AND individual screws. You'll have to try several combinations until you are able to find out which one works better for you...
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sure... Originally Posted by mC2
I tried this many times,
individual screws more for volume than for the sound.
I mean electric sound.
I used all humbuckers with or without individual scews.
Generally sound is very similar.
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Well yeah, the sound doesn't really change. But when the volume of the individual strings are adjusted it is much easier to get a nice amp tone I feel. For some reason my pickups where not adjusted very well. I found it a real game-changer to know that it could affect the sound this much!
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I used high Shadow AZ model on my arch-top and Kent Armstrong .
I like the sound from those pick ups and Shadow pick up has not any individual screws.
so it is also important what kind of the guitar you have...:-)
semi-hollow is totaly different than big hollow-body.
Semi-is more electrical and hollow is more acoustic.
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JazzHiFi,
I thought your second clip was more to the point of a pretty good jazz tone.
As far as pickup heights go, here is what I like to do. I adjust each side of the pickup (not the pole piece screws) to get a good balance and volume. I usually raise the bass side to get enough bass without it being boomy (there is a "sweet spot" there; somewhere)...for the neck humbucker pickup. I am a fan of starting the amp's e.q. on high and lowering rather than adding to bass, mids, and highs. If your amp has a separate gain control, don't keep it at more than mid way. You'll have to experiment with it, which can be a challenge sometimes.
My right hand technique also comes into play. For Jazz, I like a lot of chord forms/shapes on the middle four strings for rhythm and solos with triads on the top three strings. I learned my Jazz from the Mickey Baker Method book from the 1950s. His method was simple and eliminated a lot of those complex chords that tie your fingers in knots.
With the above techniques I can manage to find a "Jazz" tone on Teles' Strats' as well as humbucker type guitars. If I hear too many highs, I lower the guitar's tone control; not enough bass, I raise the neck pickup, in very small increments until it sounds right to me.
Classicplayer
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So the trick to a good jazz tone is avoiding hard to execute chords? Originally Posted by Classicplayer
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Good Jazz tone depends somewhat on the type of chords you chose. Difficult to execute chords can be used of course with great effect. My preference is for easier chords that you can use in several positions with almost no open strings.
MIckey Baker's book is still in print from Amazon. In that book Baker actually writes the the chords he is presenting are designed with simplicity in mind. I will post a couple of his YouTube videos. He not only was a very good Jazz player, but was a "first call" player for R&B and one of the pioneers of early Rock.
Classicplayer
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I also tend to avoid open string chords - although they have their place. But I don't choose "easy" chords, I choose the best chords for the moment. If they are hard I need to practice on them and make them sound good. The easy way is not usually the best in jazz.
I am aware of some of Baker's take on chords but never really bothered with it. The only good books on chords I have seen are from Ted Greene and Mick Goodrick (never checked Van Eps but I bet they are also very good); Otherwise I don't even believe on drop 2 or drop 3 chords or in buying chord books.
But let's stay on the gear side of things
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Thank you your help finding a basic, clean Jazz-Tone Setup.
Yesterday I screw down the Neck PickUp adjusting the massive Bass-Volume... I think the result is quite good.
I also borrowed an ES 175 from a Friend comparing the sound at home. Yes,the sound of the ES175 is completely different; softer, more acoustic, more"elegant".
Do I really want an"elegant", soft clean sound? Actually I´m a Jazz Beginner; I don´tknow; So I just want to find a balance between those guitar-sounds
The ES355 (or a 335) with a good basic clean sound can be a more versatile solution for the future (Finding"My" sound would be another process which I can only work out bymyself)
This is why I was asking you to help me. Finding a good starting point!
I will post another soundfile in the afternoon :-)
Thank you.Last edited by JazzHifi; 05-09-2012 at 05:54 AM.
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Thanks for this, I will give it a try.
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It depends on the type of tone control circuit the amp has. Many solid state amp have a flat frequency response when controls are centered. For those amps I’d start there and tweak the bass and treble knobs to taste. I usually end up with a fair amount of treble cut. The bass setting depends on which guitar, what instruments are in the ensemble, and the room. Originally Posted by bluewaterpig
Fender tone stacks only have an approximately flat frequency response when the bass and treble controls are near minimum. So for those I start with the bass and treble at minimum, then tweak them upward to taste. If there’s a mid control, I leave it around 8.
Magnetic guitar pickups generally have a smoother frequency response when the volume pot on the guitar is rolled back, so that’s an important factor in my tone. I’ll only roll it up for crescendos if I need to cut through the band. Of course the amp’s volume knob must be turned up to compensate.
I like tube amps, but these days I’m mostly using a solid state amp for weight and convenience. With my solid state amp. I use a Joyo American Sound pedal for EQ with the gain set very low. It warms the tone up and makes it much easier to dial in what I want to hear. I’ve never been much of a pedal guy, but I bring that one everywhere.Last edited by KirkP; 03-30-2025 at 11:45 PM.
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13 years ago OP was obsessed with Stevie Ray Vaughan's tone. He figured, -why not ask the Jazz guitar forum about general guidelines on amp settings for stereotypical sounds?
underlying hypothesis: There are typical tone knob settings for different music styles, and Jazz people got it all figured out.... the hypothesis was tested and turned out to be False.
In-depth studies on the subject reveiled three most uncomfortable facts that couldn't be neglected; Players are different. Guitars are different. Amps are different.
So the hypothesis was revisited: An amp can be optimized for a certain task...this time the hypothesis turned out to be True.
It was further concluded that not all clean tones are the same. Some clean tones are atypical in Jazz.
Then a new hypothesis was tested: If you're really adamant about it, it should be possible to dial in a decent Jazz tone regardless of gear!....13 years later bluewaterpig gave up, but the jury is still out...
Stop. Please understand that it's not possible to copy amp settings and expect similar results. Amps are different, because they were designed for different users, by different people, having different ideas and objectives.
I would testify that some amp designs are more versatile than others, i.e can do more than one style well. Not all amps got a passive TMB tonestack, but when you got one of those, forget everything you think you know about tone control.
Here's another hypothesis you could contemplate: "If I can't dial in a good tone in 2 minutes, it's the wrong amp"...
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Chunking, does it work for Jazz improv?
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