[Restoration] Hofner 457 project

[Lutefisk]

Hey!

If any of you have seen my other thread in the "Getting started" section of the forum, you have had a small peak at my restoration project. I was hoping to share my project here and hopefully receive some tips.

The guitar is an old 1950's-1960's Hofner 457 (that will be a Hofner President to you yanks) that my father had lying around. The guitar is constructed of plywood top, sides and back. However even though it is plywood, I believe I might be able to get atleast a decent tone out of it considering it should be rather dry after lal these years and that coating of celluloise lacquer is not too thick. My local guitar dealer and I believe part time luthier told me that he was one hundred percent sure that the lacquer was nitro-cellulose, so I am going to act accordingly. It used to be an electric guitar but In my project I will be making it either an acoustic guitar or a floating pickup guitar. He had it with him when he was a communcations officer aboard a commercial ship during his youth. So the guitar has seen quite a few years on the sea and been here and there around the world. The reason for the necessity of a restoration is the fact that there were 3 holes in the side of the guitar and a broken neck. The neck is currently glued and straightened, so hopefully I will not receive any more trouble from that. You see that neck was horribly crooked with the end bending as much as half a centimeter up in a matter of 10 centimeters. However all of this is fixed now and it will hopefully stay that way.

As for the holes I have repaired them with mahogany pieces glued firmly on and a random piece of rather solid wood that I cut to fit. As you can see in the pictures, the largest hole was at the edge of the cutaway. And with this large of a curve I simply did not have the tools to heat bend a piece of mahagony to fit, so I ended up with a piece of wood I found in my garage. The other holes were repaired by steam bending mahogany and fixing them to place with a guitar string and a tuner (a peculiar method I found online). Worth mentioning that the square holes are NOT from the damage itself, but from me cutting them out to make space for replacement wood.

The next thing on my to do list is to do something about the finish of the guitar and re-lacquer the neck. But I would appreciate any kind of tips or help on this as I have little to no experience on lacquering other than what all of these luthiers tell about how to do it. The first picture is a roughly photoshopped picture of how I wish for the guitar to look like. I was thinking of just obtaining 2 spray cans filled with black celluloise lacquer and one spray can of clear coat cellulose for the sections I'm not spray painting with the black celluloise. As far as things stand now, my plan is to use the black-celluloise to cover up the repaired holes. As far as things stand now I have ordered a can of clear coat celluloise lacquer, but I need to do a bit more searching as to where I can obtain the black lacquer on spray can. I also believe I will dye the fretboard to an ebony color.

Please do note: I do not have the tortoise pickguard, floating pick up or 6 finger tailpiece that are photoshopped on the pictures. I will see about obtaining these after the lacquering job is done and I am assured that this project is actually worth putting this kind of money in to. Perhaps I will also replace the headstock plate overlay thing since I find the current one rather hideous.

Pictures!

[Lutefisk]

Pictures again

[Lutefisk]

Moooore pictures !

[PTChristopher]

Hi Lu',

If I may ask:

How did you determine the best neck angle and how did you remove the neck, restore the neck joint, and re-attach the neck? What glue did you use? Have you got good reason to believe that the new neck joint is sound?

>>> tips or help on this as I have little to no experience on lacquering other than what all of these luthiers tell about how to do it.

And what is wrong with what all those luthiers say? Is there something that you find particularly unworkable?

On the lacquer:

It is almost impossible to say just how difficult it will be for you to do a good black-edged burst from a can. (Stumac has black nitro in cans, but if you are non-US I have no idea where to get it.)

Cans sputter and put out HUGE droplets compared to even a very inexpensive spray gun. You can heat the cans (in warm water) to about 40 deg. C to help, but it will still be frustrating.

Lacquer in cans will take easily 2X as long to harden, and 4 to 8X is not uncommon if you are really using thick coats. Months.

You will have orange peel trouble, drips and runs, and dusty overspray troubles. Sanding off black dusty overspray on the edge of your sunburst will result in a remarkably unfortunate look. In my opinion.

A perfectly usable spray setup can be had for remarkably little cost, especially if you can borrow a compressor from someone.

A 3 gallon compressor for use with nailing guns will be far better than you might think. And a simple filter in front of the gun does a remarkably good job of keeping the air dry and clean enough (unless you live in an extremely humid location - in which case you will have blush troubles anyway).

Look at the in-line filters that Rockler sell - they work and can eliminate the need for a moisture trap for low volume amateur use.

Best of luck with this ambitious project.

Chris

[Lutefisk]

Thank you for your response! I appreciate the help.

>>> How did you determine the best neck angle and how did you remove the neck, restore the neck joint, and re-attach the neck? What glue did you use? Have you got good reason to believe that the new neck joint is sound?

When the neck was put back on there, as far as I know, was not made any effort as to finding the best neck angle. The neck was also not removed from the body when the broken part was put back on. The neck joint was restored by using regular wood-working glue between the guitar and the neck. My reasons for believing that the new neck joint is sound are not that many to be honest. I have taken it by a luthier and he said that the neck was straight and that there shouldn't be any problems related to buzzing and such. However he did not mention anything related to the angle of the neck relative to the bridge or such.

>>> And what is wrong with what all those luthiers say? Is there something that you find particularly unworkable?

Please don't misunderstand me, there is nothing wrong with what they say and I appreciate all the help I have received from them. However I have yet to ask them about the sunburst job, only about standard lacquering with clear coat on top of the old one. However I did call with a luthier today and had a chat with him about the sunburst job and the advantages and disadvantages of using spraycans. He mentioned that it would be okay to use the spray cans on small areas such as a fixed joint or something, but if I was to do a full body job I might want to consider getting a paintbrush as you mentioned. But something that might prove to be an issue is the fact that it's quite hard to find nitro-cellulose in Norway and that I would have to order it or but it in another country. He did however sell some spray cans with nitro-cellulose spray which he could send by mail (the expensive mail type, since it's flammable). These lacquers are thinned out and from what I understood they should be okay to use on a guitar. I will write him an email and he will try to get me some information about approximately how much I need. He didn't really want to get too much involved in these kind of projects since there was a lot of people contacting him with similar cases, so I am quite satisfied with the help I received from him. He said that I could spray the cans in to the glass that the paint brush used and that way use the cans for the paint brush (since it's impossible to buy buckets in Norway and one would have to import them).

John Henri

[PTChristopher]

I suggest first making sure that the guitar is in workable condition before doing the finish work.

If you are unfamiliar with how the neck angle works, the I suggest getting some cheap strings and assembling the guitar to see if everything is in order. How high is the bridge? Does the truss rod work sufficiently? Any other weirdness? Does everything - bridge, neck, tailpiece - line up on the centerline of the body (a classic small issue with some shaky neck repairs)?

Better to find this out before the finish is done.

Best of luck with getting the materials you need to do the finish. Also, either spray outside, or make sure you have effective ventilation and the right respirator mask. Nitrocellulose is pretty intense stuff for vapors.

Chris

[Lutefisk]

Done and done!

Today I put on the tailpiece and tuners (attached tuners with tape to reduce amount of wear in the screw holes). I mounted a pack of 80/20 0.11 strings on it and got it as properly intonated as possible by adjusting the bridge. However I was not able to fully intonate it as the B string and I believe it was either the A or D string which did not intonate properly, but 4 out of 6 ain't bad. Before I mounted the strings I check the neck alignment, angle and straightness with a two twine strings to make sure I wasn't wasting the strings. So far I am satisfied with the sound of the guitar, it's not horrible and it's not the sweetest and mellowest sound, but it's decent. I will try it out for a few days before I purchase anything. And I will upload a small sound clip later. Could anyone please recommend me a cheap decent air brush gun that I can use for lacquering the guitar? But for now; pictures!

Also: There is no truss rod on this guitar.

[Lutefisk]

Here's a video of some playing. And I deeply apologize for my horrible playing as I am quite new to playing the Jazz genre.

[PTChristopher]

Sounds like a worthwhile restoration project.

>>> horrible playing

I would not put it that way. Pretty much everybody is somewhere along in a process in which they are improving. Sounds like you'd fit in well in that regard.

So finish the thing and get playing. I think you would have a decent set of Rhythm Changes ready to go in a week - doesn't have to be complicated.

In my opinion.

Chris

[Lutefisk]

I appreciate it. It's nice to have a second opinion.

Do you have any idea of wether it would be a good idea to purchase black matt lacquer for the sunburst job and a blank (shiny) lacquer to put over the black finish again? I sort of want it to be a bit shiny, and not overly shiny like you see some laminate guitars are.

[PTChristopher]

I would not buy matte finish lacquer for any color coats.

The final finish luster is determined in the final clear coats.

And even there I would determine the luster with how the finish is rubbed/buffed/polished vs. any dulling additive.

My opinion.

Chris

[Lutefisk]

Alright, my mind has been batteling with itself and I think I have decided on not to lacquer the guitar in a darker sunburst. I will still lacquer the guitar. However I think I will use the spray can, unless anyone has some tips on why not to.

So I wait. I wait for my lacquer, or more percisely, the money to buy the lacquer so I can wait for it to arrive. And while I wait I devote my time to other things, such as going to local guitar shops and practicing on notation

[PTChristopher]

>>> I will use the spray can, unless anyone has some tips on why not to.

Ummm,... can't think of a single reason,...

Again, best of luck with this project.

Chris

[Lutefisk]

Not sure if you're ironic, but the reason for my statement was that I will only be using clear lacquer.

- John

[PTChristopher]

Hi John,

Yes, I was suggesting that I had already given an opinion. This would have some impact in a clear overcoat.

But more to the point, surely others will have some views that can be very encouraging. My view is hardly the last word on this or any subject.

Also, if you have lots of time, it can be done with cans.

Again best of luck with this.

Chris

[Section Player]

Why not just sand it down and give it a natural finish?

[oldane]

That old Höfner makes me very nostalgic. I had one exactly the same in my teenager years in the 1960s. It was my first archtop. I bought it second hand at a bric-a-brac shop for a ridicously low amount (~$50) including a not-so-hard case. The shop owner was a gruff old man with a big heart and he was known for adapting his prices to what he figured was the financial strength of the customer. I must have looked like a very poor 16 year old (which I was) who wanted that guitar badly (which I did). I brought it home with the case tied to the luggage carrier on my moped. My mom was not too pleased. She asked if we didn't have enogh noise coming from the radio. Later when I was in my early twenties I got a second hand Gibson 175, which I still have, and a few years later I lend the Höfner to a friend. He still has it around somewhere now more than 30 years later.

I figure yours also came with those black plastic capped pickups with height adjustment wheels, right?

[AlohaJoe]

Perhaps I will also replace the headstock plate overlay thing since I find the current one rather hideous.

I'd save the headstock overlay. It's an important part of the guitar and its history IMO. Maybe a little overdone by today's standards but it's of the era. It's like taking the Frequensator off an old Epi... you may not love it, but it defines the guitar. What looks overdone today will be totally cool in five years.

[Lutefisk]

I figure yours also came with those black plastic capped pickups with height adjustment wheels, right?

It's nice to hear that other people have history with this type of guitar, and what an entertaining story as well! You are right about the pickups, two black ones. I posted a picture below.

Why not just sand it down and give it a natural finish?

I love natural finishes and they are hands down beautiful, but however I do not think I will go ahead with that kind of finish on this guitar.

I'd save the headstock overlay. It's an important part of the guitar and its history IMO. Maybe a little overdone by today's standards but it's of the era. It's like taking the Frequensator off an old Epi... you may not love it, but it defines the guitar. What looks overdone today will be totally cool in five years.

Well you do have a rather good point there. But we will see in two weeks, as to why I explain below.

Hi John,

Yes, I was suggesting that I had already given an opinion. This would have some impact in a clear overcoat.

But more to the point, surely others will have some views that can be very encouraging. My view is hardly the last word on this or any subject.

Also, if you have lots of time, it can be done with cans.

Again best of luck with this.

Chris

Thank you again, and I appriciate all of your help! Yes, I must admit that I was a bit fast on the reply part, and I apologize for not taking what you had already stated in to account. But I suppose more was going on in my head than what I was typing. The reason I said I would use cans instead of the air brush was because I don't have an airbrush and the ones I find online are rather expensive. My father already has an compressor, so that part is taken care of in case I choose to do it the airbrush way instead.

However I will be leaving for Poland and Germany this Monday. I will be back on Saturday next week. Hopefully I will have figured out how I want it by the time I arrive back, so I will then start the lacquering and whatever work I figure out I'll do.

Spring is really marching in now.

John

[Lutefisk]

Lookie

[Dad3353]

Good evening, Lutefisk...

Having watched/listened to the video, and seeing your most recent photos, I'd like to congratulate you on bringing back to life your father's rather battered treasure. There is nothing ultimately 'sacred' about vintage instruments, but if one can get them playable again, whilst preserving their character, I think there's an extra satisfaction.
From the clip, the sound was much better than I would have thought, especially when taking into consideration your description of the damage. It sounds fine, and will improve further when the intonation details are 'tweaked'. You should not be ashamed of your playing, either. If you really want to specialise in that 'brushed thumb' style, look no further than Wes Montgomery; he made a whole career of nothing but that..!
A teacher would probably be the ideal, but there are many (poorer...) substitutes, such as online lessons, or a good method. I see in one of your photos the Mickey Baker volumes; highly recommended (by me, at least..!).
In short (ok, it's too late, sorry...) well done. Another Höfner back in circulation.