Installing a bridge pickup on a Gibson ES-165

[fws6]

any $100 you put into a guitar will make it worth $200 less if it is non-reversible (except maybe a refret)

Just get the guitar that you want, dont buy new but a nice used one if your budget is tight

[cjm]

I'm not really clear on this, I think I know what you're saying but maybe I'm wrong about that. Isn't a jazz guitar something that allows you to play jazz well? I see that your idea of jazz guitar means you don't see any use in the sounds and frequency range that a bridge pickup might add.
If I had a guitar with a bridge pickup and I used it to add some "acoustic" quality when mixed slightly in the middle toggle position, is that wrong? It's a sound I can't get from the neck pickup alone, it's warm but to my ear it's got a more openness that appeals to my ear. I never use the bridge pickup alone, I don't even use it a lot in the mix, but it's there in my sound, when I want it. Are you implying there's something "not jazz" about this?
I'm just not sure about the delineations that qualify real jazz and how the choice of specific equipment figures into the legitimacy of a player, or the definition of the genre for that matter.
I'm certainly open to being educated though-
David

Well, obviously it's an opinion, but I submit it is also a widely accepted opinion, and for good reason.

You can spend $30K for one of Bob Benedetto's archtops and it doesn't come with a bridge pickup. Go back to Wes Montgomery's recordings after he began using L5's almost exclusively and usually there is no bridge pickup installed on the guitar. Barney Kessel's favorite guitar was an ES-350 modified by installation of a single "Charlie Christian" pickup mounted in the neck position. Johnny Smith Gibsons were available with a bridge pickup, but Smith himself almost always played the single pickup model. The orginal Howard Roberts Epiphone and subsequent plywood Gibson models had a single pickup in the neck position. And so on...

So, while it is just an opinion, it's an opinion I'm sticking with. I've constantly listened to and played guitar since I was a kid in the 60's. I have never heard a jazz guitar sound enhanced by the bridge pickup and I have heard plenty where the bridge pickup detracted from the sound.

Sure, it's a matter of taste, and as they say, "YMMV."

But not to my ears.

[Jazzman301]

This is not the kind of mod you do yourself for starters. Next this is not the kind of mod you have the guy at Sam Ash or Guitar Center attempt. To me if you HAD TO HAVE this mod then you need to find a serious luthier who has a TON of experience. As a guy who has built many many hot rods and HIGHLY modified vehicles over the years I can tell you that it is almost always cheaper to start off with something as close to what you want to end up with as possible. I bet to cut,route, wire and install a bridge pickup and the cost of the pickup you would be looking at $300 or more.

So here is a thought...you WANT a bridge pickup...what about a modified pickguard where the bridge pickup was a floater...? This seems MUCH more realistic and attainable with out modifying the guitar beyond restoration to original configuration. Buy/make a pickguard that has a floating bridge pickup install. Maybe a nice Kent Armstrong floating PAF. If you came to me to do this and had to have a bridge pickup this would be the only option I would consider doing.

'Mike

[ericvan]

I know this is rather off thread but I am looking to buy a ES175 since a couple of years now only to see them get more expensive and especially the newer models, getting less well made.
SO i found on the local ebay this Gibson ES175 with 3 pick ups at a reasonable price around 1900 US
I haven played it and wont be able till I buy it, i talked to the seller and the guitar seems in good shape, the extra pick up was on it when he bought it and he has no idea why its there. It looks like this is an '82 model.
I wouldn't really want to resell it if tis good...
wouldit be a good idea to buy this? any suggestions?

[AlohaJoe]

would it be a good idea to buy this?

Where to start?

Buying a guitar that's had holes cut in the soundboard by you-don't-know-who without even seeing it is a bad idea.

And no.... that's not a reasonable price IMO for something with a radical alteration in terms of market value. If you love the guitar AFTER you play it and you really want a guitar with three pickups (??) make him an offer, but for that much money I think there are many better choices.
- Joe

[jzucker]

the era that produced the 165 (late '80s) was a particularly good time for 175s. I have an '89 175 and I previously owned an '89 165 and they both were fabulous guitars. Not sure why but they are much better than anything I have played in the '90s. Acoustically, they are much more lively and have more thunk.

So it's your guitar. If you want to put a bridge pickup in it, more power to you. If you don't care about the resale value don't worry about it. My guess is that you will have a hard time finding a garden variety 175 in the same price range that sounds as good as your 165 (assuming yours is a late '80s)

[ericvan]

Tnx Joe,
I would totally agree with you, were I living in the US or Europe, happens I live in Brazil and to Brazilian standards this is a giveway, there's almost no ES175 around here.
Even so, the modification bothers me too...
eric

[AlohaJoe]

Hi Eric, I'm sure you know your market better than I do. I probably should have added the caveat that I have no knowledge of prices outside the US.

I hope you find a guitar you love.
- Joe

[Little Jay]

And the newer 165 with the floater? They're not so wanted, at least not where I live, and can be had for around €1000 cheaper than a regular 175. Upgrading that with one or two buckers sounds like a good thing.

[LtKojak]

I live in Brazil and to Brazilian standards this is a giveway

Is there no local luthier that can build you the instrument you want for roughly the same amount of money?

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/M...do-luthier-_JM

This a very good intrument for even a lot less than that one... check it out!

[ericvan]

Tnx Pepe and Joe,

Brazilian handicraft is sloppy in general and overprized, not saying there aint great people out there..., but this Gomes guy ,in Sao Paulo, looks ok, I might give him a call and chek out what he can do...

Might have a fixation on that ES175 since I was forced to sell mine out of financial problems back in 1990. I had a 1984 or something and never ever had that kind of guitar in my hands again ... might be psychological... I am really not a Gibson guy, i play PRS, but this ES175 just stuck with me,the sound the feel, the body...

anyways. I like the look of that Heritage H575....I am visiting New York in a couple of weeks and might have a look at some used gear stores...

Eric

[BigMikeinNJ]

Being in NYC sure doesn't hurt your chances of finding a great guitar, if you have time check out Guitars n Jazz website, Mr. Lou Del Rosso is very respected in the area. I think if you look at his website he explains how to get from Port Authority in NYC to his shop, I believe it's one train ride to Summit where his store is. Caveat is he is by appointment only but man does he have inventory. And speaking of inventory he has a lot of Eastman 175 type guitars in stock, something to consider because Eastman has really come a long way. You can look him up on GBASE to get a look at some of what he has. He's a really very nice guy.

Yeah if you are in NYC area your options are huge while there. Best of luck. So you would carry the guitar back on the plane. I don't know about flights to Brazil but I lived in Chile a year and the United Airlines flight I had both ways was more than half empty. Hmm, perhaps they would let you carry on the guitar. I never saw a 767 fly so empty... Fingers crossed that you find your dream guitar at what I am sure is a far more reasonable price than say trying to buy something down there would ever be... I lived in the outskirts of Santiago and my "father in law" was pretty connected and frankly the places he took me to were less than anything I would have imagined. There were a couple special stores in a swanker area called Providencia but jazz guitars were not something they had... Like I said, fingers crossed for you.

Mike

[floatingpickup]

the era that produced the 165 (late '80s) was a particularly good time for 175s. I have an '89 175 and I previously owned an '89 165 and they both were fabulous guitars. Not sure why but they are much better than anything I have played in the '90s. Acoustically, they are much more lively and have more thunk.

So it's your guitar. If you want to put a bridge pickup in it, more power to you. If you don't care about the resale value don't worry about it. My guess is that you will have a hard time finding a garden variety 175 in the same price range that sounds as good as your 165 (assuming yours is a late '80s)

The ES-165 came out in 1991.
Keith

[Jazz_175]

This thread was started by "Dark Star" a few years ago (Feb 2012).
I wonder which guitar he eventually bought.

[Dark Star]

The original guitar that piqued my interest sold, so that particular guitar is out. Since then, however, my tastes have changed & I am not opposed to buying a 165 & just leaving it as is. It seems prices have dropped since 2012. They can be found in the $1.5K-$2K range.
I'm also looking at the D'Angelico EXL-1.

[SamBooka]

I am not opposed to buying a 165 & just leaving it as is. It seems prices have dropped since 2012. .

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooo....

Also since 2014 Eastmans and Loars have come a long way..

[Cunamara]

As for modding archtop guitars...

HOWARD ROBERTS: "The Black Guitar"

[ericvan]

Thanks Mike for your good advice,

Yeah, Brazil is like the backyard of the world, imported goods are rare to find and very expensive (import taxes are around 100-150 %). Gibson is usually only on demand f.e.

So, I looked at the GuitarsnJazz site and found the Heritage H575, sells around 3200 USD which is nothing cheap. I'll shop around, maybe i ll find my dream ES175 or similar stowed away in some longforgotten pawn shop in Camden, for 500 bucks )))

chrz
Eric

[jads57]

Maybe go for a used Eastman 175 clone if the neck shape agrees w/ you! Way less than $1K

[ericvan]

Maybe go for a used Eastman 175 clone if the neck shape agrees w/ you! Way less than $1K

are they comparable to Epihophone ?
eric

[DRS]

Better to buy the ES 165 and a $300 Tele for when the country/rockabilly bug bites you.

Here's the math

Used ES 165 $1,900
Pick-up, installed $300
Sell ES175 <$1,200>
Cost to play $1,000

Used ES 165 $1,900
Used MIM tele $300
Sell ES 165 <$1,900>
Sell MIM Tele <$300>
Cost to play $0.00

[ericvan]

Well I ended up being the 3 pickup ES175 for around 1800 US and just got it today. Apart from the strange third pickup (why would anyone install 3 pick ups on an ES175? to try to sound like Slash on Lexotan??) the guitar is in very good shape for its 33 yrs of age ('82) and also the third pickup job has clearly been done by a professional.
The sound is just as I remembered it (used to have an '88), and maybe she lost in market value but I can live with that. In Brazil I can easily resell her for the same price if needed. I shopped a lot in NY and the cheapest ES175 i found was 2999 for a '97 (including eBay) and I was mainly interested in an 80s issue, anyways... just wanted to share with you guys and thanks again for the tips...

[Jabberwocky]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooo....

Also since 2014 Eastmans and Loars have come a long way..

Yeah, and Bruce is now known as Caitlin. But still dresses right or left.

Lots of things have changed since 2014.