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1. Do they sound better acoustically?
2. When you do you really go to town in the 15th position? I.e, do you really need a cutaway? If you need to play something up there, you could probably play most of it, anyway. Classical guitarists do it. Why can't jazzers?
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11-30-2011 11:51 PM
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You run into some interferance when trying to play in D or A minor with a non cut away. I am not sure if they are more "lively" accousticaly or not. I think they can sound great. I love my 67 Guild X50 non cutaway...Guilds answer to the Gibson ES 125. I feel like they sound best with single coils based on my experience. The single coil "mickey mouse" pickup in my X50 is great as are the Franz pickups and P90s.
'Mike
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I find that my Godin 5th Ave acoustic (basically a ES125 knockoff) plays nicely, but I really do miss having those extra few frets. Case in point, I've been doing a lot of solo transcriptions of Miles Davis and on the Godin I often have to drop down an octave to finger the notes, whereas with my Samick JZ4 (basically a L5 knockoff) I don't.
On the other hand, Martijn van Iterson makes it work very well.
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Meh. They suck. That's why I banished mine out into the cold.
The neck joins at the 14th fret like all of the iconic flattop acoustic guitars about which nobody complains regarding their lack of cutaway. And compare, as you note, with classical guitars that join at the 12th fret, again with nobody complaining about a lack of cutaway (actually, a cutaway on a classical is frowned upon by that tradition-bound community, and marks you as not a "serious" player).
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Question 1) Don't know. I havent tried my two non cutaway guitars in cutaway versions. I figure that there are many other variables which influences the sound, so maybe this difference is minor.
Question 2) I don't go that high on acoustic guitars. I don't like the sound up there - much richer lower on the fretboard. Jimmy D'Aquitso used to say thart archtops sound best between 3rd and 10th fret and that's also what I find. With electrics it's different, though the tone also often gets week that high up. All my electrics are cutaways.
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1. Do they sound better acoustically?
As far as acoustic archtops go, there is said to be a noticable difference. In the 1930s and 40s several builders like John DAngelico, Epi Stathopoulo were very reluctant to build cutaways. Personally though I find that acoustic archtops can differ a lot in sound anyways. Id say that for any brand and model you probably can find excellent and more run-of-the-mill examples. So I am convinced that you can find also an average non-cut and an excellent cutaway of the same guitar. So to me there is non strict rule that the cutaway would sound better or worse, I just judge each guitar by playing, and what I ended up with is an arbitrary mix of cuts and non-cuts.
For electric archtops I can hardly imagine there would be a big difference when fully amplified.
2. When you do you really go to town in the 15th position?
I have no idea which notes are up there; but probably mostly the same as below the 14th fret
Last edited by fws6; 12-01-2011 at 07:50 AM.
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Yes. ^
I concur with fws. Archtops are pretty idiosyncratic creatures. If you could compare a cut and non-cut version of exactly the same guitar, I think the non-cut would have a tad more bass response and possibly more sustain. Volume, maybe, but that's less certain, because archtops punch the volume out of themselves quickly. Size of the box doesn't seem that critical (within reason).
But really, why not just get a cutaway if you will always be so worried that you're missing something with a non-cut?
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The cutaway is extremely important in that it permits casually placing one's hand in the cutaway while posing for portraits with the guitar held vertically on one's lap.
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Finally someone is talking about the IMPORTANT issues! ;-)
Originally Posted by cjm
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I called Mr. Solomon yesterday, on the strength of your posts, and inquired about the Imperial model. I have a few contingencies that need to happen (Selling at least one guitar) before I can think about placing an order with him. Originally Posted by rpguitar
Basically, the only thing I need is a good acoustic arch top with the boom of a flattop. MY acoustic guitar collection proper is actually ONE-a cheapo "Selmer" style gypsy guitar. But I'd also like to cheat and get a pup installed on it. I didn't think it would be possible, until I came across (1) your posts and (2) Tim Lerch's video demoing that experimental Trenier.
If I can get the funds to put a down payment on a Solomon, I think I would opt for the 7 string version--without the cutaways and without the quilting--25.5 scale, 1.75 inch nut width. Ideal for playing with fingers--really, you should ideally play a 7 string finger style, to avail of the harmonic possibilities of the instrument.
Thanks again for posting your demo. I may ask you, if you don't mind, further questions if everything lines up and I am able to place an order on this guitar.
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Apparently, you can also do the same thing with your face. Originally Posted by cjm
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That's really great, and I hope it works out. You can certainly ask me anything you like. Erich was really great to deal with, and has a strong vision for his product and its design goals (sonically as well as aesthetically). Originally Posted by NSJ
I will reiterate one of my many past comments - a true acoustic archtop with a properly mounted floater (i.e. not impeding vibration) is my personal favorite tool. The jazz look of an archtop makes me drool, and the extra sonic versatility provided by the Solomon guitar make it a terrific all-around acoustic in my opinion.
Can't speak to 7 strings, though. You're on your own there.
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I have a few chord melody arrangements that get up relatively high that are a bit easier to pull of on a guitar with a cutaway, but for the most part, it's a non-issue.
For the most part when improvising, I'm not getting much higher than the 12th-14th fret area...I don't really care for the way guitars in general sound up much higher than that.
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That is a common rookie mistake: One that often leads to permanent injury. Originally Posted by FatJeff
Apparently, you can also do the same thing with your face.
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I don't play above the octave very much but every time I try a guitar without a cutaway it takes me about five minutes to get really frustrated as I try to play chords around the fifteenth fret. I guess I do it just often enough to like having that easier access.
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Personally, I think it boils down to what excites you more: The archtop thing or the acoustic thing. There is definitely a sense that some of us get where we value the acoustic nature of the instrument very highly, and anything that compromises it - real or perceived - is to be done away with if possible. A full size non-cut acoustic archtop excites me for that exact reason.
I have two songs in my repertoire, each of which has exactly one chord that I can't play on my non-cuts. I revoice and all is well. Not a big deal. For single note soloing, I can reach up to fret 18 or so with no real effort. That's 2 frets remaining at most that require a bit of preparation to hit.
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The sweet spot, indeed. In contrast, two extremes of playing, positionally Originally Posted by oldane
1. Folkie strumming cowboy chords: lots of open strings ringing, 1st position-2nd-positon chords, maybe 3rd position. And that's about it.
2. Metal head sweet spot: dude in Motely Crue garb (where's that umlaught when you really need it!?) doing fast, repetitive M2 and m3 ascending and descending slurs at the 18th position.
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Thanks. Originally Posted by rpguitar
That's really great, and I hope it works out. You can certainly ask me anything you like. Erich was really great to deal with, and has a strong vision for his product and its design goals (sonically as well as aesthetically).
I will reiterate one of my many past comments - a true acoustic archtop with a properly mounted floater (i.e. not impeding vibration) is my personal favorite tool. The jazz look of an archtop makes me drool, and the extra sonic versatility provided by the Solomon guitar make it a terrific all-around acoustic in my opinion.
Can't speak to 7 strings, though. You're on your own there.
I'll keep you posted. I've cut down my guitars to just a few, and realized that I really don't have any good acoustic guitars at all. What I'd like is just one really good one that projects like a flat top. But I want to cheat too, and use it like a jazz box with a floating pickup.
True about the floating pup not cutting into the wood and affecting vibration.
I think with this, I'll have the best of both worlds. Erich described himself a plectrum-less fingerpicker, so that's exactly down my alley
There's something to be said for a brighter sounding guitar that projects very well acoustically with more sustain. And can double as a jazz box. And is under 5 lbs.
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Nice video of an Eastman AR805
Here's his website
Jonathan Stout and his Campus Five, featuring in Hilary Alexander - Swing Guitar Blog - GEAR: What IPlay
Love that vintage swing sound!
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i much prefer the looks of a non cutaway. sound wise i think there is a slight improvement too, but i definitely wouldnt say its boominess. more like a little more (dare i use the term) warmth.
i have yet to find the body getting in my way at all when im soloing, only once in a lunar eclipse do i reach for a chord that proves difficult. but my fingers are long enough that i dont usually find it any issue.
when i was 14 i was obsessed with getting a guitar with 24 frets. then i saw a Hamer that had 27 and it blew my mind. oh the teenage mind...
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