Dougs Plugs

**jorgemg1984** · 09-26-2011, 05:05 PM

Hi!

I decided to use get some plugs from Doug. I have tried the tape route but its ugly and messed up my finish... I know the plugs can mess with your sound but I assume its mostly acoustic, I don't think it would be relevant amplified. I am also aware I could make some plugs myself but the homemades I saw were too ugly to my 60s archop

The thing is I have sent Doug two e-mails and got nothing. Does anyone knows if he is still on business?

Thanks!

**jzucker** · 09-26-2011, 06:21 PM

it does change your sound electrically. How could it not? Don't understand how clear packing tape could be ugly? You can barely see it. And I used it on an old ES 165 with lacquer and it didn't hurt the finish.

**jzucker** · 09-26-2011, 06:22 PM

here's benson with packing tape (he always uses it)

You would never notice it unless you were looking for it.

**FatJeff** · 09-26-2011, 06:32 PM

I ordered a second set from him very recently. It took him forever to get them to me and I had to prompt him several times. The first time I ordered, a couple of years ago, he was fast...so something has changed. He did mention something about personal issues, but hey, if you're in business and are taking people's money, you really ought to be responsive.

The products themselves work well.

**jzucker** · 09-26-2011, 06:38 PM

i bought a set from him and the first time I took them out, the cover portion (the thing that sits over the F-Holes) tore off. He was good about giving me a refund .

**spiral** · 09-26-2011, 06:51 PM

I posted this in jzucker's ebony plugs thread but just in case you missed it, the gist of it was: you can use the clear window cling film intended for inkjet printers and you can find it at any office supply store. The adhesive is much less agressive than packing tape, the film is more rigid, and they were invisible on the guitar i tried. The guy who i stole that idea from did it on a poly-finished guitar, so test it out on a hidden stop of a lacquer guitar before you go putting them on the front of your one of a kind $20k guitar.

**jzucker** · 09-26-2011, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by spiral

I posted this in jzucker's ebony plugs thread but just in case you missed it, the gist of it was: you can use the clear window cling film intended for inkjet printers and you can find it at any office supply store. The adhesive is much less agressive than packing tape, the film is more rigid, and they were invisible on the guitar i tried. The guy who i stole that idea from did it on a poly-finished guitar, so test it out on a hidden stop of a lacquer guitar before you go putting them on the front of your one of a kind $20k guitar.

thanks for the tip.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-26-2011, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

here's benson with packing tape (he always uses it)

You would never notice it unless you were looking for it.

I notice it, I think the plugs look much better. And the tape I tried messes with the finish (a special formula used by my luthier, not quite lacquer) and I don't want to keep trying with that.

I know you said several times the plugs change your sound but a lot of people swear they don't change so I am not sure who I should believe :/

**Little Jay** · 09-27-2011, 04:52 AM

I made some wooden/foam plugs myself, I posted a picture in Jzucker's ebony plugs thread. I think they look good and they offer much more feedback protection than tape (which doesn't realy help in my experience).

**jorgemg1984** · 09-27-2011, 07:26 AM

I will talk with my luthier and report back soon.. it seems Doug its out of business so I might ask him to make me something custom!

**jzucker** · 09-27-2011, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

I know you said several times the plugs change your sound but a lot of people swear they don't change so I am not sure who I should believe :/

Paul Bollenback agrees with me but what can I say. If you don't hear it you don't hear it.

**AlsoRan** · 09-27-2011, 01:36 PM

Guys,
How do these plugs work? Do they lessen feedback by blocking air from traveling through the holes of an archtop?

Is the idea to find some way to close those holes in an airtight manner?

**jorgemg1984** · 09-27-2011, 01:39 PM

I know, but then I see guys like Bobby Broom or Kurt Rosenwinkel using the plugs and a lot of guys say the electrified sound doesn't change - don't know who should I believe.

My luthier is probably going to do some custom plugs and then we will see if I like it or not. The tape is out of the question, really hated the look.

**jzucker** · 09-27-2011, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

I know, but then I see guys like Bobby Broom or Kurt Rosenwinkel using the plugs and a lot of guys say the electrified sound doesn't change - don't know who should I believe.

My luthier is probably going to do some custom plugs and then we will see if I like it or not. The tape is out of the question, really hated the look.

i'd be extremely shocked if broom and rosenwinkel claimed it didn't change the tone. Common sense and physics would tell you that it has to change the tone. The only issue is whether it changes the tone in a way that's acceptable. Think about it. If it reduces feedback, how could it not change the tone? If you really believe that that doesn't effect tone than why not use a solid body guitar because the same principles apply?

**jorgemg1984** · 09-27-2011, 01:57 PM

I think I hope I will get what you are saying - no feedback at the cost of an "acceptable" change of tone! Lets see what my luthier says and what my ears say after his suggestion

**jzucker** · 09-27-2011, 02:14 PM

I tried 2 sets of plugs. One came with a hofner jazzica I had and the other was a set of doug's plugs for a 165. In both cases, I felt that the plugs deadened the vibration of the top more than the tape did. I guess I'm not so vain because I preferred the sound of the tape and used it without worrying about fashion or vanity!

When I studied with Martino, at his request, I filled my guitar with upholstery cotton and frankly that is the best solution. It changes the tone even more than plugs but in a way that I felt sounded better than plugs or tape and it completely eliminates all feedback. The problem with tape or plugs is that if you play standing in front of a loud drummer, the sound waves will vibrate the top of your guitar and this will cause your guitar to feedback. Not so with cotton. However, after the cotton, my L5 weighed more than a Les Paul! Sounded glorious though. If you like the sound of Martino's Lean Years, Starbright, etc., that's the sound of heavy strings with a stuffed guitar.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-27-2011, 02:30 PM

Ha ha lets see which wins: vanity or my ears...

Will also talk about the cotton possibility with my luthier, good suggestion!

**jzucker** · 09-27-2011, 02:43 PM

you probably won't like the way the cotton looks. I put a piece of black velvet under the f-holes but it's still noticeable close-up.

I'm surprised that as vain as George Benson is (facial surgery, implants, skin smoothing) and he's not bothered by the looks of the tape that some other folks are!!! haha

**jorgemg1984** · 09-27-2011, 02:47 PM

Yes, I do think the plugs will beat the equation sound vs looks vs feedback. I will post when I have my decision!

Ha Ha great point about Benson... he keeps all the vanity for himself not for the guitars!

**jorgemg1984** · 12-20-2011, 12:07 PM

So I have finally found a solution... a frined of mine is a designer, came by the house and took some pictures of the f-holes. Did a vectorial design of the plugs and went to a CNC / Laser shop to make the plugs in some light wood (name here is "balsa") and EVA foam.

My friend did a great design with a deep plug that fits the f-hole exactly and another slightly large and very thin plug. My tech glued them together and painted the wooden ones ebony to match my tailpiece and my bridge.

They both look great, specially the wooden one. First impressions: a little tone change but absolutely no feedback (amplified, the acoustic tone had a much more noticeable change, sort of like a feedback buster on an acoustic). I always feedback on the low C and got none with both plugs. The EVA ones area a little more efective, the wood ones are much prettier.. Will keep both just in case.

I liked this solution much more than the tape one - it's more expensive and I lost a lot of time but it's more effective killing feedback and it lokks WAY better.

**Little Jay** · 12-21-2011, 07:07 AM

That's about what I did too! The most elegant ánd effective solution I think.

Originally Posted by Little Jay

I made some plugs myself and they work very well.

The wood is called Meranti overhere (cheap kind of mahogany-like wood), cut them out roughly, shaped them with a simple file and I died them black with a permanent marker. I glued some foam under them that keeps 'em in place very well.

**jorgemg1984** · 12-21-2011, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

That's about what I did too! The most elegant ánd effective solution I think.

That looks great Jay! You managed to make them fit just by hand? My luthier said that was tuff - with the design made by friend and the CNC machine my plugs fit just perfect

**Little Jay** · 12-21-2011, 09:46 AM

Yup, made them by my self. Traced the contour of the f-holes with a paper that I rubbed with a pencil and cut them out slightly bigger so they won't fall into the hole. The foam keeps them in place. I did the shaping by hand with a file and sanding paper on a nice sunny afternoon on my balcony (took a couple a hours!

)