Is sound affected by the finish?

**Jazz_175** · 06-24-2011, 09:53 AM

A few days ago someone told me:
The Gibson 335, natural has a different sound than the sunburst or whatever color.
He said that the sound is more dry (drier).

Can this be true or is it just our invention?

Does this apply to other guitars as well, like Les Paul, Stratocaster etc...

What do you think?

**djelley** · 06-24-2011, 10:02 AM

For solidbody guitars I don't believe the finish effects the sound at all. People will argue all day long about poly vs nitro - I don't buy it. Never will.

For hollowbody there probably is a difference in sound between thinner and thicker finishes and between poly and nitro. The color? No way.

Now, I suppose that the sunburst finish is thicker by a hair. It is also possible that different methods of preparing the grain are used.

Could someone REALLY tell the difference in a blind taste test? I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, SERIOUSLY doubt it. Just my $0.02.

On the other hand, people speculate that Stradivarius are so superior because of the finish used, so what do I know?

**SamBooka** · 06-24-2011, 10:20 AM

Dangerous question to ask ... (not really but everyone has a different opinion because there is no readily available quantitative way to measure the differences). All we can rely on is our ears (which are imperfect) and our brains (which are more imperfect).

So.... red vs blue finish? I cant hear a difference and I havent met anyone who seriously says otherwise.

Poly (in all its variants vs nitro .. vs nitro with poly filler). I cant hear a difference but my hearing is shot (as is my brain) but enough respected guitarists say they can hear the difference so I will say yes. It may just not be worth the extra 800$ to me personally for a nitro finish.

Side note: On my solidbody 59 Musicmaster was refinished (badly in the 70s). Finally decided to unload it but wanted to put it back to desert sand colour so I stripped it. Never found nitro finishes here (no one will ship nitro to Canada) so I put it back together and VERY noticiable difference in tone without the finish (to the point that I am not going to sell it now).

So.. back to your initial question. I dont buy the other guys comments in this instance and chalk the difference up to different woods (all other things like strings being equal).

Sunburst/Natural finishes will sometimes be applied to guitars with different body woods. Gibson would use nicer looking maples on their natural models (which made them more expensive). Fender used Ash for their sunburst models and alder for their solid models since you couldnt see the grain anyways (although I thought it was backwords, leo didnt like figured woods and used alder in sunbursts because its grain was more plain).

Done.. need more coffee.. enjoy

**kris** · 06-24-2011, 10:28 AM

color and sound?....
no!!!

**spiral** · 06-24-2011, 02:46 PM

I personally think thickness has more affect than material. Nitro is easier to fix. Poly is more durable. I would take a poly finished Foster over a nitro finished Esteban, any day.

Guitar Finishes

**hot ford coupe** · 06-24-2011, 05:44 PM

Two pieces of wood don't sound alike, two carvings don't sound alike, two finishes don't sound alike. That's why we try each instrument for it's own qualities.

**Billnc** · 06-24-2011, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by SamBooka

So.... red vs blue finish? I cant hear a difference and I havent met anyone who seriously says otherwise.

I was being a jackass when I was in retail. Think I convinced someone red guitars slightly emphasized low frequencies due to the lower vibration of red in the EM frequency spectrum as you go higher in color towards violet they emphasize the upper harmonics in music.

**kris** · 06-25-2011, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by hot ford coupe

Two pieces of wood don't sound alike, two carvings don't sound alike, two finishes don't sound alike. That's why we try each instrument for it's own qualities.

You are right

!!

**fws6** · 06-25-2011, 04:39 AM

sure ! for epiphones i think they sound best in blonde. Could be subjective ...

**oldane** · 06-25-2011, 07:10 AM

When I was a teenager (many, many years ago) Puch mopeds were popular with us. They came in two colors - black or red. I had a buddy who believed the black ones were faster than the red ones.

**Peter C** · 06-25-2011, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by oldane

When I was a teenager (many, many years ago) Puch mopeds were popular with us. They came in two colors - black or red. I had a buddy who believed the black ones were faster than the red ones.

I had a custom painted orange one which wasted the black ones.

**cutnstuf** · 06-25-2011, 10:31 AM

To my understanding, the finish, or lack of one does effect the sound of acoustic guitars. A too thick finish on the top might hinder it's vibration and create a "muffled" sound. Different types of finishes would no doubt place different constraints on the vibration of the top. If I remember right, John Lennon sanded the finish off of one of his guitars to adjust the tone to his liking. Then again, he may have been tripping at the time!

Cut

**Retroman1969** · 06-25-2011, 10:42 AM

Wow, if this was the Tele or Strat forums, this would already be a 97-page hotbed of insanity and angst.

**NSJ** · 06-25-2011, 11:01 AM

Here's a question-- how would putting another finish (eg, changing from a burst to a natural) change the tone? You'd have to sand off the first finish and reapply the 2nd

**cutnstuf** · 06-25-2011, 03:46 PM

I don't think the color would have much effect. More the type and thickness of the finish.

Cut

**Jazz_175** · 06-26-2011, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Everyone knows a green guitar sounds more organic.

Actually I did'nt know about that

**oldane** · 06-26-2011, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Everyone knows a green guitar sounds more organic.

Sounds like Grant Green?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

**hot ford coupe** · 06-26-2011, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by oldane

Sounds like Grant Green?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

If you turn off the amp, you get Freddie Green.

**Elias Graves** · 06-26-2011, 09:23 AM

Acoustic guitar? Yes, finish matters, but only in how heavily it's applied.
Electric guitars? No. I've repainted several guitars that started out with heavy catalyzed ployester finishes (Epi, PRS SE, ibanez, etc) and a new lacquer finish did not change the sound one whit.

EG

**NSJ** · 06-26-2011, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Elias Graves

Acoustic guitar? Yes, finish matters, but only in how heavily it's applied.
Electric guitars? No. I've repainted several guitars that started out with heavy catalyzed ployester finishes (Epi, PRS SE, ibanez, etc) and a new lacquer finish did not change the sound one whit.

EG

What about a laminate Archie ? Wouldn't you have to be careful how you sanded the 1st finish off?..?

**Elias Graves** · 06-26-2011, 09:34 AM

Yes, you have to be careful. You have to watch it or you'll go too deep and remove a layer of plywood. The top veneer is quite thin.

And that polyester is basically epoxy and very hard. Sanding is a painstaking process. Many people remove it with a heat gun and scraper. Very easy to warp guitars or scorch the wood doing that, though. I avoid that method.

What I've taken to doing on polyester covered guitars is to stop sanding before I hit the wood. Those finishes are thick and consist or multiple layers. From outer to inner, they are clear, color, clear. The bottom clear is used as a grain filler/sealer. The middle color layer is very very thin and the top clear adds depth. I sand through the top clear and the color, leaving enough of the base clear in place to use as a sealer/filler. That way, I don't damage the wood. Epoxy is a commonly used grain filler/sealer anyway, so leaving the base coat is a no brainer unless someone specifically wants an "all nitro" finish.

EG

TH · 06-26-2011, 01:31 PM

Q: Is sound effected by the finish?
A: Most definitely so. When you finish, the sound tends to stop.

David

**Soco** · 06-28-2011, 10:48 AM

My vote is for red guitars, they simply sounds better.

**kris** · 06-28-2011, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Soco

My vote is for red guitars, they simply sounds better.

Natural color is more woody sound

!

**NSJ** · 06-28-2011, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Elias Graves

Yes, you have to be careful. You have to watch it or you'll go too deep and remove a layer of plywood. The top veneer is quite thin.

And that polyester is basically epoxy and very hard. Sanding is a painstaking process. Many people remove it with a heat gun and scraper. Very easy to warp guitars or scorch the wood doing that, though. I avoid that method.

What I've taken to doing on polyester covered guitars is to stop sanding before I hit the wood. Those finishes are thick and consist or multiple layers. From outer to inner, they are clear, color, clear. The bottom clear is used as a grain filler/sealer. The middle color layer is very very thin and the top clear adds depth. I sand through the top clear and the color, leaving enough of the base clear in place to use as a sealer/filler. That way, I don't damage the wood. Epoxy is a commonly used grain filler/sealer anyway, so leaving the base coat is a no brainer unless someone specifically wants an "all nitro" finish.

EG

Thanks for taking my question seriously and taking the time to compose a thoughtful response. I appreciate it, as I once gave thought to changing the finish to an old guitar, but its plywood and they said you had to be very careful about sanding the top veneer. I wasn't about to risk sound for mere aesthetics, as it wasn't a cheapie guitar.