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But, doesn't shorter scale guitar supposed to have less string tension, which makes it less projecting?
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I guess that's why D holes are considered to be rhythm while O's solo?
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04-07-2013 05:57 PM
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Well, not quite... there are some scale-length generalizations that have merit, but projection will also depend a lot on the individual guitar and your attack. Also, many GJ guitar makers now also offer hybrid D-hole/long-scale instruments. Originally Posted by nikolozj
All of the Hot Club guitar players (including Django) initially played Maccaferri designed (short-scale D-hole) guitars. When Selmer brought out their 'new' long-scale 0-hole style they gave one to the already-famous Django but not to the rhythm players who continued on with their Maccaferris. Thus began an oft repeated misnomer and unfounded Gypsy-Jazz tradition.
The guitar in my avatar is a modern take on the earlier 12-fret 'Grande Bouche' design and it breaks windows at 50 paces.
I've also been fortunate to play a few very rare old original Selmers, and Django must have had hands of steel. They were laminates with very high action (and clubby necks) and you had to really overpower them to make them sing. That may also explain why his tone was so heavy on the fundamental with few overtones.
Get your hands on as many guitars as you can in your price range... buy the one that sings to you.
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I recently sold my Gitane DG-250M to a student to raise funds for my Guild AA. I didn't realize how much I would miss having a GJG! I found a Latcho Drom on ebay and it should be here next week. I did have a Bigtone installed. Got kind of tired of messing around with the Shertler Basik setup I used on the Gitane. The whole shootin match was under $1300.00. I orginally wanted to bite the bullet and get a Dupont, however I couldn't justify the expense as I only use the GJG with a violinist I work with once a month. I've played most of the Asia built GJG and came away thinking the Latcho was the best for my needs and pocketbook.
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I think you'll be VERY pleased with the Latcho Drom...excellent guitars.
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mmk im mainly a gypsy jazz player,then some fusion on the side.heres my opinion.if your on a budget like under 500 bucs.its kinda limited,id go for the cigano d hole model.the oval hole model kinda blows.aria d hole as well.the ovals in this price range are pretty much not really gypsy jazz guitars.they dont really give the tone,or volume.the d holes while not the best will give you good volume,good tone and good playabilty for the price.mmk if your gonna up your budget then skip gitanos.best bet is an altimira,latcho drom,and if you cant afford those maybe a paris swing,i havtn yet tried a paris swing guitar but i hear good things bout them and the giatnes just dont cut the tone,the oval ones are more mellow then the french brittle tone and the d holes are more dreadnoght sound,so not good for lead.so id say cigano d hole.then after that upgrade go for altimera then if you wanna get into the expensive handmades you have lots of choices lol,like jwc,ajl,ald,hahl,killy nonis,dunn,park,freschi,mjl,dupont,olivermarin,and many more
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Trust me, my Gitane Dg320 sounds NOTHING like a drednaught.
Last edited by mr. beaumont; 04-08-2013 at 01:49 PM.
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Thanks for reply! Originally Posted by AlohaJoe
Another thing I'm wondering about D holes is.. Well my teacher told me actually about cutaway guitars, that it loses some tone when guitar misses some part of the front, when it can be there. I know and he knows too that it's sort of superstition, but how's that in practice? D holes have really big hole on their front.
Yeah, I noticed that in pictures. Like.. early Django pictures show him play 0's and later it's D or archtop or whatever...All of the Hot Club guitar players (including Django) initially played Maccaferri designed (short-scale D-hole) guitars. When Selmer brought out their 'new' long-scale 0-hole style they gave one to the already-famous Django but not to the rhythm players who continued on with their Maccaferris. Thus began an oft repeated misnomer and unfounded Gypsy-Jazz tradition.
I want to get one good beginner GJ guitar, one of the things I'm afraid about (if I get 0 hole) is inlays on 10th fret. I had some old russian guitar that had that standard of inlay and it was really confusing to play on it sometimes. What I eventually did was that I just took it out and drill a hole on 9th and put it there where it belongs!
Guitar was super cheap so I didn't worry about drilling.
So How that works for you guys? Does that even bother you?
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Get the best you can afford. I have a Gitane DG-255 which I'm very happy to have started with. I want to trade up to a better model now that I have been playing for a few years and have realized it's something I want to stick with. But to start, any of the beginner Saga models should be fine, or even the ciganos...
Don't worry too much about D or O holes or scale length or inlay positions right now. I thought it would be a big deal too, but after a while you get used to moving from inlays on the 10th to inlays on the 9th.
K
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DG-255 isn't really a budget, is it?
The only one I can afford now is Gitane Cigano GJ-15 or GJ-10.
Is there any way to get something in between Gypsy Jazz and Traditional Jazz? I do want to keep learning traditional jazz, but I got into GJ as well... I was thinking about Godin 5th avenue for some time, but that is dead quiet unplugged compared to Gitane or any other GJ guiar...
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get a the loar lh-300,works for both styles and inexpensive
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Is Loar better than Godin? Or louder?
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loader,carved top
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Thanks for advices Scolohofo. I found this lh-309, I really like it.
By the way none of these GJ gitanes have pickguards, how does that affect body? I do scratch a lot my current acoustic guitars pickguard. Mostly edge of the hole gets damaged.Last edited by nikolozj; 04-10-2013 at 05:58 PM.
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Well, if you are using traditional GJ right hand technique, you are very unlikely to scratch the guitar top at all. I suppose some players still scratch them up, though. Djangobooks sells clear plastic pickguards that are like a screen protector. They are practically invisible... Originally Posted by nikolozj
K
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After reading all the posts and the various opinions of what a gypsy guitar is, isn't, should or shouldn't be, I thought I would point out a few things that haven't been discussed.
First of all, Maccaferris and Selmers were cheap, production line guitars that through serendipity, excellent design or a combination of both ended up sounding great. But they weren't hand-crafted expensive guitars, they were beaters. Cheap guitars for musicians who drank cheap wine.
The Gitanes and Ciganos are actually closer to what Selmer built than the DuPont, Eimers and other handmade boutique instruments that are being touted as having the best sound for gypsy jazz. DuPont, Aylward, Eimers,et al. are building guitars that are to Selmer what a D'Aquisto or Bennedetto are to old Gibsons. Although Gibsons from the same era were, IMO, better crafted than Selmers.
I've played several Selmers including one that was once owned by Sarane Ferret. They had, as Aloha Joe stated, laminated back and sides and big necks. I've also played modern reproductions by DuPont, Dunn, Dell Arte' and Ziminicki that I thought were superior in sound and build to the originals.
I owned a limited run Ibanez/Maccaferri that was signed by Mario and built in 1981 which I later sold and replaced with a Saga D500. Neither ever exhibited the tendency to sound like a dreadnought.
Most of the posters who claim that the DuPonts and such have the best sound for gypsy jazz would likely be disappointed if they ever encountered a real Selmer.
I would avoid buying anything with a laminated top and also keep in mind that The Loar is not a gypsy guitar and while the solid top models have a great sound, it isn't the gypsy sound.
A Gitane with a good setup and the right strings could very well be all the gypsy guitar you'll ever need.
Last edited by monk; 04-11-2013 at 02:25 AM. Reason: spelling
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No one said that here, if you read carefully, I asked what's the best to get "in between" GJ and traditional jazz. That's why the loar was mentioned in this thread. Originally Posted by monk
Of course it will never give you that percussive sound, but why is it absolutely necessary to get that sound anyway?
What is the measure of GJ sound? Django? Django played and made recordings with electric as well. I understand that, that acoustic percussive tone GJ had in he beginning, makes GJ different from any other jazz and it makse GJ GJ! But I think it's not a crime against mankind to play GJ on electric, is it? Especially if you don't know that you're completely getting into it.
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After hearing and playing a fair amount of different gypsy guitars, I always feel an immediate uptick when I play a 14-fret Dupont. They're just loud and crisp and light as a feather and the notes really do just "pop" out. I like my JWC, but if I had the money, I'd go for a Dupont MDC-50.
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Has anyone heard of Lark in the morning gypsy jazz guitar?
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If you are speaking of the store/web site Lark in the Morning... one word
A V O I D
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I'm talking about guitar, found this on craigslist
It's a GJ guitar for 300 bucks
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The high quality luthier built GJ axes might not be as 'authentic' but I still wouldn't mind owning one...
Here's Bireli playing an Aria mm20, about as cheap as you can get - sounds pretty good lol
A friend here in Australia has just ordered a DG-255 from Djangobooks for a great price, if I like his I might get one as my first manouche axe.
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I got the chance to play GJ guitar for the first time (!!!) just recently. It was more than $3000 guitar, hand-made...
I was excited to play GJ guitar for first time, but at the same time I was sort of confused and disappointed of the volume that this guitar produced...... The cheap Ibanez dreadnought that I use now, might sound a lot louder that this 3K GJ did. Of course the shape of the sound is different but the volume.... Is this normal or did I just not pick it as hard as I should pick GJ guitar?
I'm using 3mm picks and I did at some point pick really hard, the time when you get almost like fretbuzzish sound but still..... not the volume I expected...
What was it?
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Next time if you get a chance, do a side by side comparison with your dreadnought - you might be surprised. I was playing my friends dobro and remarked that I didn't think it was that loud - he then got me to compare it with an acoustic steel-string and the dobro was heaps louder than I originally thought. Your ears can adjust very quickly. Originally Posted by nikolozj
Was it a petite bouche (o-hole) or a grand bouche (d-hole)? The petite bouche guitars are loud but the sound projects away from the player - so they might not seem that loud when you're playing them.
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That must be a loud dred...
IME, even the cheapest Gitanes are louder than any Martin "banjo killer" I've played. Be sure to have somebody play it for you and sit in front...especially with a petit bouche.
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Did you play using gypsy picking and reststrokes? Originally Posted by nikolozj
There are two mistakes so many people make that make a GJ guitar sound like a dreadnought:
1: They use alternate picking or any picking style with too many upstrokes for GJ.
2: They pick too close to the neck. The "sweet spot" is generally just where the soundhole begins, this is assuming the guitar is an oval hole.
There is one guitarist in particular who is held in high esteem who plays several jazz styles, including gypsy jazz.
He plays the gypsy jazz guitar with alternate picking and picks close to the neck. It sounds like a dreadnought. Sometimes he plays gypsy jazz using a hybrid guitar, not quite sure what to call it, but it's electric at least. When he does that, I really dig his sound. And otherwise I am a huge fan of his playing too. The player is Frank Vignola.
Listen to this:
You'll hear the difference in tone. I'm not knocking Frank, because when he plays other kinds of guitars he sounds awesome. But there is just something lacking when you don't play a gypsy jazz guitar with the technique it demands.
So I kind of went off on a tangent there, but it illustrates my point. The true tone of a gypsy jazz guitar comes out with the right technique and vocabulary.
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