Active Pickups? Why not?

**KirkP** · 08-10-2015, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by woyvel

...if active pickups are (theoretically) cleaner, with higher output (headroom?), more high and low end, more articulate, why wouldn't it be a good idea for a jazz guitar?

There are many good responses so far, but I'll add my 2 cents and make some wild speculative leaps.

With a high impedance pickup, the impedance of the pickup, instrument cable, and preamp together form a circuit (or filter) that determines the frequency response of the pickup. Most magnetic pickups that stood the test of time did so because they had a pleasing frequency response when used with cables and preamps available at the time.

An active pickup has a buffer near the pickup that isolates the pickup from whatever follows the buffer. Put a buffer in the pickup and you have a much different frequency response. If you like it, great. If you'd like something closer to the tone of the original passive circuit you can try following the buffer with some EQ, but it might need to be more than just a treble/mid/bass control. One could also try to optimize the pickup design to have a pleasing frequency response without a load, or build a load into the pickup to try to approximate what was there before.

As an engineer, I'm sure it's theoretically possible to design an active pickup to have the same frequency response as a passive pickup loaded by a cable and preamp. I just don't think any active pickup manufacturers see any profit in it. Most people using active pickups (such as Tuck) do so because they are looking for an alternative to the classic tone.

I think the situation is much the same for low-Z pickups.

**Marty Grass** · 08-10-2015, 02:44 PM

If I had only one guitar, I would not put EMG actives on it. But I have more than one.

I've come to like the Steinberger with EMGs. The are "sterile" in the sense they are naked. There is little compression. Every sound is amplified pretty much linearly. The starkness can be intimidating. But if you can produce good technical sounds with EMGs, you have nothing to fear moving to single coils, even truer with humbuckers.

What I liked a bit better than EMGs are Alumitones. They sound similar but less sterile. Like the EMGs, there is no hum.

This video gives you an idea. The Alumitone weighs a lot less that a standard humbucker. That might mean something if you have a heavy guitar or if you feel the weight of your pickups is damping your top.

**LtKojak** · 08-10-2015, 04:26 PM

I own two instruments with EMGs, a S/S/S and a H/S/S.

Not sterile for me. But they have less headroom than normal single-coils, so you need to adapt your picking and volume control usage.

I can get a pretty convincing Jazz tone using the neck p'up and rolling the tone down to zero; it never gets muddy or lose articulation.

HTH,

**KirkP** · 08-10-2015, 06:04 PM

I'm wondering what people mean when they compare the headroom of two pickups. I think of headroom as purely a function of the output stage of the amp (including its power supply) and the speaker/enclosure.
I guess they mean that the differing frequency responses between the two pickups makes them perceive their amp as having less headroom with one. For example, a bass-heavy pickup would require more amplifier power than a more neutral pickup to bring the mid-frequencies to an equivalent power level. If tone controls on the amp are left at the same setting, it might create the perception that the amp has less headroom. But if you cut the bass on the amp a bit to equalize, the headroom should be about the same.

I can imagine a similar situation with an overly bright pickup, but high frequencies don't require as much power as lows, so I think that would be perceived as an imbalance, not a loss of headroom.

**Jazzman35** · 08-10-2015, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by goldenwave77

I[/B] was never a metalhead, but hasn't Alex Skolnick re-oriented his career towards playing jazz?! I don't know a lot of his stuff, to be honest, but I think he's probably a pretty decent jazz player by now.

And as for Tuck A., I remember reading an interview where he was asked about his tone/setup, and he basically said don't even try to replicate it....the vintage L5 he plays is almost irrelevant...his tone relies on extensive, and very elaborate EQ-ing equipment. He is a VERY smart guy and seems to think through whatever issue he tackles (picking technique; live sound reproduction; fingerstyle guitar accompaniement) in a very thorough and disciplined manner.

Black Sabbath just got a lot better. Yes, Skolnick does have a jazz trio thing, can't say that I know if he uses active pickups in his work in this trio.

**Cunamara** · 08-10-2015, 10:37 PM

ZOMBIE THREAD! But that's OK. I am surprised that in the discussions about active pickups that the name of Ron Eschete didn't come up, since EMG designed the 91 pickup for him.

He's had some health problems, apparently, but he looks in pretty good shape here:

I think the second clip shows the best that active pickups tend to sound for jazz. I don't know who else might be using that pickup. Not loving the bass sound during the solo, though. Bassists seem to have become enamored of this bright sound where you can hear every winding on the strings- sounds like a buncha Slinky's to me...

**crisscross** · 08-12-2015, 02:58 AM

Anyone ever used an EMG Tele set? I

I have an old Squier that I recently turned into a tenor guitar(using a capo on the 4th fret). It has EMG pickups from the 80ies.
I remember, they were a real hassle to build in, for the knobs and output jack didn't fit. But they sound fine. With the trebles rolled off, you can get a nice jazzy tone. On this tune, I played the third chorus on my tenor tele (not the one pictured). But I deliberately went for a little brighter tone than the one before using my P90 equipped Squier vintage modified.

At 1:00

**Archie** · 08-12-2015, 05:07 AM

Batteries. I would never use a pickup that had batteries. They always go flat, you never have a spare and you always leave them on so they are flat after the 3rd use.

My pickups sound great and work for free. I like it that way. I dont want to have to factor in the price of the guitar plus how many batteries I will need and how much they will cost, over the life of me owning a the guitar.

That could be running into the hundreds of $'s over the years. No thanks!

**LtKojak** · 08-12-2015, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven

Batteries. I would never use a pickup that had batteries. They always go flat, you never have a spare and you always leave them on so they are flat after the 3rd use.

That's funny... when I was a traveling pro in the '80s and 90s, I had a Valley Arts Standard Strat with an active EMG 89/SA/SA p'up set.

I've played an average of three-45minutes sets a night, six nights a week, 48 weeks per year for about seven years with the same guitar. I had a spare (all pros do), never had to use it, not even for breaking a string.

Ask me how many times I my battery went flat without a spare in that period of time? Hint: it's between zilch and none.

You know what that's even funnier? Almost all bass players I know use an active bass, with none less than two batteries in their instruments. Did any of them had any problem at all with dead batteries without a spare? Never heard of any since early '90s.

If any pro got caught with a flat battery without a spare, would've been fired on the spot.

Such careless behavior have no room in any playing situation, pro or amateur, not even in a jam-session.

But I agree with you on this: if somebody is too stupid to use an active p'up system, it shouldn't have one to start with.

**Archie** · 08-12-2015, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by LtKojak

That's funny... when I was a traveling pro in the '80s and 90s, I had a Valley Arts Standard Strat with an active EMG 89/SA/SA p'up set.

I've played an average of three-45minutes sets a night, six nights a week, 48 weeks per year for about seven years with the same guitar. I had a spare (all pros do), never had to use it, not even for breaking a string.

Ask me how many times I my battery went flat without a spare in that period of time? Hint: it's between zilch and none.

You know what that's even funnier? Almost all bass players I know use an active bass, with none less than two batteries in their instruments. Did any of them had any problem at all with dead batteries without a spare? Never heard of any since early '90s.

If any pro got caught with a flat battery without a spare, would've been fired on the spot.

Such careless behavior have no room in any playing situation, pro or amateur, not even in a jam-session.

But I agree with you on this: if somebody is too stupid to use an active p'up system, it shouldn't have one to start with.

Actually I was referring more to my experience with acoustics with active pickups. I should have clarified that.

Also bare in mind that about 1% of the guitar playing public are professional ;-)

**wildschwein** · 08-12-2015, 09:09 AM

The current draw of active pickups is so small. As long as you unplug your guitar after every session (usually inserting a jack switches the preamp on) you should get at least 6 good months out of a 9 volt battery even if you play for hours every day.

**jzucker** · 08-12-2015, 09:26 AM

i've played with several bass players that had to make emergency battery changes on the gig.

Originally Posted by LtKojak

That's funny... when I was a traveling pro in the '80s and 90s, I had a Valley Arts Standard Strat with an active EMG 89/SA/SA p'up set.

I've played an average of three-45minutes sets a night, six nights a week, 48 weeks per year for about seven years with the same guitar. I had a spare (all pros do), never had to use it, not even for breaking a string.

Ask me how many times I my battery went flat without a spare in that period of time? Hint: it's between zilch and none.

You know what that's even funnier? Almost all bass players I know use an active bass, with none less than two batteries in their instruments. Did any of them had any problem at all with dead batteries without a spare? Never heard of any since early '90s.

If any pro got caught with a flat battery without a spare, would've been fired on the spot.

Such careless behavior have no room in any playing situation, pro or amateur, not even in a jam-session.

But I agree with you on this: if somebody is too stupid to use an active p'up system, it shouldn't have one to start with.

**Marty Grass** · 08-12-2015, 09:30 AM

Here's the floating EMG 91 in action. Sounds good to me.

There is an external battery source so that no battery needs to be under the pickguard or in the f hole.

The sound is very crisp- no mud. And it's hum free. Nonetheless, not everyone is after this sound.

**pingu** · 08-12-2015, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i've played with several bass players that had to make emergency battery changes on the gig.

it happened to a bass player i was playing with a couple of weeks ago ....

**grahambop** · 08-12-2015, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i've played with several bass players that had to make emergency battery changes on the gig.

There must be a joke that's offensive to bass players to be made out of this, but I can't quite think of it yet!

**wildschwein** · 08-12-2015, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Marty Grass

Here's the floating EMG 91 in action. Sounds good to me.

There is an external battery source so that no battery needs to be under the pickguard or in the f hole.

The sound is very crisp- no mud. And it's hum free. Nonetheless, not everyone is after this sound.

Sounds great. As to the bass players they are probably leaving their basses plugged in at home which drains the batteries. Even the most over-the-top active set ups have a very low current draw, but if you leave the guitar lead plugged in it won't take long for the hours to add up and leave you with a drained battery. This is because in most active schemes the jack is a TRS type, as opposed to the standard TS, and plugging in actually activates the circuit. Unplugging turns it off. Some set-ups have an on/off switch on the instrument. You should easily get 50-100 hours of playing out of one battery for most circuits. I have a homemade Jfet preamp circuit in a small box at the front of my pedal board which is activated when plugging in. I have had the same battery in it for 2 years.

Here's a list of bass models and the measure of their current draw. The data comes from a group of users at talkbass.com (http://www.talkbass.com/threads/how-....892831/page-4). Some of these basses are 18 volt and some are 9. The Peavey Cirrus being the hungriest recorded. Most guitar set ups, like with EMGs, Blackouts, Bartolinis etc are going to be similar to those at the bottom of the list:

Peavey Cirrus 5 FL (Made in USA): 11.21 mA
Peavey Cirrus 5 (Made in USA): 10.10 mA
Peavey DynaBass type preamps (Dyna, Sarzo, TL-5): 7.5 mA
Peavey Cirrus 5 BXP: 4.72 mA
EMG BTS with two OPA1641s draws: 3.16 mA
Dean Edge 4: 2.01 mA
Audere JZ3 preamp: 1.66 mA
Aguilar OBP-1: 1.484 mA
Bartolini NTBT-918: 1.183 mA
Ibanez SR2010 Ashula Bass: 0.79 mA
Ibanez SR505: 0.77 mA
Ibanez SR505: 0.75 mA
Ibanez SR305m (EMG BQC preamp): 0.74 mA
Fender Active Jazz including a 0.05 mA battery monitor: 0.593 mA
Fender MIM Deluxe Jazz: 0.55 mA
EMG BTC: 0.428 mA
Musicman Stingray (3-band EQ): 0.36 mA
Vintage MM 2-band preamp with LM4250 op amp: 0.25 mA
Cafe Walter PZP-1 (piezo pickup buffer): 0.219 mA
G&L L2000 Tribute: 0.17 mA

9 volt batteries typically put out about 200-500 mA, rechargeables about 150 mA; and the more expensive lithium ones can do about 1500 mA (specs can be seen on the 9 volt wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-volt_battery).

**woyvel** · 03-12-2016, 08:21 PM

Well, I was looking for Steinberger and/or active pickup threads, and found this old thread I'd started quite a while back. So here's an update after trading in the pickups I'd won (above), and a few guitars later...

I recently picked up a Steinberger Synapse Transcale with active EMG's in it and I can get a variety of great tones out of it (IMO, tone is always and opinion anyway). I have found, as stated above, that though "clean" they tend to overdrive at full volume on the guitar. My Stenberger has a center detent on the volume knob, which works well for keeping the tone clean and then putting a little grit into a lead when turned up. Direct through my ZT Lunchbox, and using a handful of amp models on my DigiTech RP, I can get a number of tones for jazz or just about anything else.

**DanielleOM** · 03-13-2016, 07:43 AM

I often use a K&K belt style pre-amp with passive magnetic pickups primarily at open mics where you often do not know what the other end of the instrument cable is plugged into.

Around here I find there's some open mic hosts that really have no concept of input impedance when it comes to instrument and line level input jacks. I suspect more often than not when some hands you an instrument cable the other end is plugged into a line level jack.

Although I bought the K&K preamp to use with a K&K pure western mini pickup (piezo), I find it has really been great for these open mic situations. It gives me reasonable range of tone, and it also eliminates all of the scratchy noise when adjusting volume at the guitar.

**Lionelsax** · 07-12-2023, 04:06 PM

Hi !

Today I tried this guitar !
ESP LTD EC-1000 Vintage Black – Thomann France
Something like that with EMG pickups.
This guitar is incredibly good !
Although it has a 9-42 string set it sounded good and accurate.
Very very nice !

At first I put the bad link, it is not a cheap guitar.
Maybe it was this one...
ESP LTD EC-401 Black – Thomann France
I don't know the price, I didn't try it in a shop.

**mrwoland** · 07-13-2023, 03:14 AM

Hi!
Here I play an active pickup from Cycfi Research.

**Alter** · 07-13-2023, 08:55 AM

Active pickups can be very impressive, but then you realize how limited the dynamic range is, and how everything is compressed. That's superb if playing something with drive, in fusion style, fingerstyle or anything where you would like compression, but in most other playing situations (certainly in jazz), I prefer lower output pickups. You can always amplify and compress them, but not the other way around.

And then the battery thing.. I've had a tele send sparks flying when trying to change a battery before a gig once, and then the onboard preamp died.. the guitar should be the worry free link in the gear chain..