Who makes the best Gibson L-5 copy?

[lawson-stone]

There is a superb condition 1978 Memphis EL 300 for sale on Reverb. It is the same guitar as the Aria Pro II PE-180. As far as I can see only the tuning machines (they look like Schallers) and the bridge top (looks like a gold Gibson ABR-1) have been swapped out. Everything else looks like original, 1978 vintage. The guitar appears to be in almost mint condition from the photos.

I know from personal experience that the EL 300 and the PE-180 are superb guitars. Someone looking for a clone, who doesn't want to spend $6K, could do worse.

https://reverb.com/item/2319311-memp...burst-new-pics

Wow that's a sensational deal. The price is so low only because the "Memphis" logo doesn't carry quite the impact of Ibanez or Aria. But it's a classy guitar. The tailpiece also really has the weight and substance of the L5ces, not a stamped out brass copy. Even has that springy-thingy for adjusting tension.

Somebody needs to buy this guitar Real Soon Now.

[2bornot2bop]

So is the Memphis simply a rebranded made for American market version of the Matsumoku made Aria PE180?

[Franz 1997]

Another clone brand is the Greco L100S. I have just bought a '78 version; for live gigging, it nails an L5-ish sound, and is a really well made guitar once the dodgy electronics are fixed. It also has the dubious bonus of a very Gibson-like logo.
I have owned 2 real L5s, and as a gigging guitar, this one equals them - the lam top difference is insignificant if playing with other instruments IMO.

Without giving away what I paid, I can say that if the Memphis L5 above is a sensational deal in the US, then if you can get a Greco L100 in the UK, the going rate here represents a very sensational deal indeed..

[h1pst3r88]

2b, yup.

I just scored a Matsumoku Crestwood Howard Roberts with all the wonderful appointments you see on that Memphis or Lawson's PE-180. Matsumoku guitars are just wonderful instruments!

Can't wait!

-Chris

[lawson-stone]

Here's a very cool thread in which our own "icr" converts or fancies up a Sebrig JS20 into a credible L5ces clone.

This is really a seminar on upgrading a relatively cheap laminated archtop into something fun.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/ind...japan.1338779/

[Greentone]

Nice Crestwood. I have seen the same guitar as Penco, and as Starfield. They are super copies of the 70s Gibson model.

Answer to the question about the Memphis: the top-line Matsumoku was sold here (USA) under several brands, e.g., Aria, Aria Pro II, Memphis, Bradley, Carlo Robelli, and perhaps others. They all were the exact, same guitar--the top instrument from the Matsumoku factory (not counting the PE-190, which was the acoustic version with the floating pickup--a Rhythm Chief, by the way). They are great guitars.

[h1pst3r88]

Hmm, thought the early Robelli's were from Peerless in Korea?

-C

[lawson-stone]

Nice Crestwood. I have seen the same guitar as Penco, and as Starfield. They are super copies of the 70s Gibson model.

Answer to the question about the Memphis: the top-line Matsumoku was sold here (USA) under several brands, e.g., Aria, Aria Pro II, Memphis, Bradley, Carlo Robelli, and perhaps others. They all were the exact, same guitar--the top instrument from the Matsumoku factory (not counting the PE-190, which was the acoustic version with the floating pickup--a Rhythm Chief, by the way). They are great guitars.

And was the PE180 identical to what sold in Japan as the L1000? Except the L1000 of course had the Gibson-style headstock?

[Greentone]

Re: Carlo Robelli--It depends entirely upon the vintage and the model. Regarding the PE-180 equivalency, check out these several headstocks:

They are all the _same_ guitar, from the Matsumoku factory in Japan, from the 1970s. Later, in the 80s, the Arias, Grecos, Robellis, etc., came from different factories (and countries)--and the Memphis line disappeared after about '86.

The first headstock is from the Aria Pro II L-1000 that Lawson mentions. It is a "pure" lawsuit version, right down to the headstock inlay.

[Greentone]

The Memphis logo inlay looks like abalone, compared to the others--but I doubt it is. One thing I CAN tell you, having played the Aria and Memphis side-by-side, they are identical and sound and play fabulously.

If I were in the market today, I would choose based upon condition and price, not logo.

[2bornot2bop]

I appreciate your expertise GT!

So how about electronics and pickups on the PE180 and Memphis EL300?

Are the humbuckers anywhere close to the glorious Maxon Super 70's in the Ibanez 2460, the Ibanez style L5 CES?

Is this 'Memphis' Japan model akin to the modern day Raines who pays Yunzhi 'x' amount of dollars to build an agreed upon number of guitars bearing the Raines name and then imports them?

The Memphis logo inlay looks like abalone, compared to the others--but I doubt it is. One thing I CAN tell you, having played the Aria and Memphis side-by-side, they are identical and sound and play fabulously.

If I were in the market today, I would choose based upon condition and price, not logo.

[Greentone]

2bop,

Yep. It's a later example than the exact contemporaries I show farther above. Here are some '75-'77 guitars (that correspond to the type that I remember in the Washington DC area when I lived there). They all had the post-lawsuit version of the headstock inlay and the modified top of the headstock:

[2bornot2bop]

Okay, for the benefit of any future member(s) curious about the "Memphis" badging on these PE180 style L5CES' guitars, apparently the roots of the Memphis brand are linked to instrument distributor C. Bruno and Sons.

The short story suggests "An instrument importer and dealer, Charles Bruno immigrated from Germany to Macon, Georgia in 1832." later moves to NY, and after his passing at some point his instrument company is acquired by Kaman Music Corporation, now owned by Fender, what isn't, which during the 60's created the 'Memphis' brand. The brand was based upon affordable "asian made" instruments reportedly distributed between '69-'89

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C..._%26_Sons,_Inc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Guitars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KMCMusicorp

[2bornot2bop]

They are still not cheap! Of the non-Gibson archtops, these are the cadillacs, and one does pay for them. For the price of a nice Aria or Greco L5ces copy, one could find an ES175, likely a Norlin era.

But they really are excellent instruments and I delight in playing mine. Except for the Gibson pixie-dust that the L5ces has, this guitar scratches the L5 itch very nicely.

I dunno...$1500 for my former PE190, and nearly the same for the EL300...what's one gonna buy for $1500...a used Eastman, or perhaps a used Peerless Cremona...if one can find one. Still affordable...but not common to find I know

edit - Gibson pixie dust? Oh boy, are you ever looking to get flamed!

[lawson-stone]

I dunno...$1500 for my former PE190, and nearly the same for the EL300...what's one gonna buy for $1500...a used Eastman, or perhaps a used Peerless Cremona...if one can find one. Still affordable...but not common to find I know

edit - Gibson pixie dust? Oh boy, are you ever looking to get flamed!

When was that? These days, an Aria labeled PE180 is in the $1800-$2500 range, depending on how nice they are. I still think they are worth it, and let's face it, Matsumoku seems to have had a supply of far-eastern pixie dust that was pretty potent! My PE180 just calls to me all day long. Such a solid, well playing, great-sounding guitar!

[lawson-stone]

So today my Aria Pro II PE180 took one more step toward feeling like a "real" L-5ces!

[Greentone]

Lawson,

Ha! Nice touch. I'll just stay with the Matsumoku version of the split diamond.

[Benson]

My 2470nt has a 25," scale and outperforms all the l5s I have had/has and most of the ones I have tried.

[Jimmy Mack]

Socraticaster, You just shouldn't ask such a question:"Do Norlin era Gibsons count as copies? I hear they're pretty good, but not quite the real thing."

If you only heard it! Where?

I have a wonderful Norlin L5CES.

Go play one, or several. There are gems and there are dogs in every manufacturer, model and year.

My '65 Johnny Smith (non-Norlin) had to go. I would like the money it would bring nowadays, but it yielded NO satisfaction playing it, many years ago.

[2bornot2bop]

I'm telling you folks, the PE-180 does far more than check all the L5CES boxes, even when played with and compared to like instruments of today. This isn't hyperbole. And I'd not have believed it had I not played them side by side. I only wish I had a Norlin era L5 to compare the '180 to. Well, on second thought, a borrowed Norlin L5.

[Socraticaster]

I didn't mean it seriously - just making fun of the fact that (some) people have Norlin-phobia. I do admit that I've never cared for the aesthetics of a volute very much - but certainly not enough to dissuade me from owning a nice L-5. I'm currently GAS-ing for one of those new Gibson Solid-Formed Top guitars - that seems like a viable alternative to an L-5.

Socraticaster, You just shouldn't ask such a question:"Do Norlin era Gibsons count as copies? I hear they're pretty good, but not quite the real thing."

If you only heard it! Where?

I have a wonderful Norlin L5CES.

Go play one, or several. There are gems and there are dogs in every manufacturer, model and year.

My '65 Johnny Smith (non-Norlin) had to go. I would like the money it would bring nowadays, but it yielded NO satisfaction playing it, many years ago.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Socraticaster, You just shouldn't ask such a question:"Do Norlin era Gibsons count as copies? I hear they're pretty good, but not quite the real thing."

If you only heard it! Where?

I have a wonderful Norlin L5CES.

Go play one, or several. There are gems and there are dogs in every manufacturer, model and year.

My '65 Johnny Smith (non-Norlin) had to go. I would like the money it would bring nowadays, but it yielded NO satisfaction playing it, many years ago.

Ever era has its shiners and its dogs. Not to derail, but I like a few of the Norlin innovations (multipiece necks [of course done previously on jazzboxes, but introduced to their solidbodies in, I think, 1970?], and the volute being the two most sensible to me).

[DMgolf66]

Been trying to scope out my own L5 style archtop and ran across this, among others:

Ibanez FA-700 Solid Carved Top Sunburst L5 Guitar | Reverb

I'm quite new to all of this and still learning as much as I can. This looks like a very nice guitar, but see that the listing has been up for a while. I imagine even after the major price reduction it is still a bit high?

Would love to hear the thoughts of any more experienced (probably every member here) members.

Thanks!

[rpguitar]

With shipping to the U.S. it breaks the $3,000 USD mark, and there is a no return policy, which scares some buyers. It was clearly way overpriced before at $5K, for which one can obtain a real Gibson L-5CES. We don't know when the price was lowered during the 7 months. Could have been very recently.

Overall, looks like a great guitar. The Ibanez has a 24.75" scale, though, vs. 25.5" on an L-5.

[Jabberwocky]

DMgolf66, the Epiphone Broadway Elite/Elitist is a good one. I don't like the Elite/Elitist appellation but I would look for one. Also, consider a Heritage Golden Eagle. You should be able to find one well under $3000, if you shop intelligently.