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Hi guys, has anyone dealt with this issue before? The back has separated from the sides on the lower bout but it's also no longer flush with the sides. I know it looks like the side is bulging outward in the pictures but this seems to be an optical illusion as, best I can tell, the side/ribs are still symmetrical and the top seems to still be solidly attached all the way around. The side also seems to still have a right angle to the top/back so it doesn't seem to be asymmetrically bulging on just the backside. The binding is intact and is still mostly attached to the back. Neither the back nor the side seems to have much flex so I'm not sure how they'll go back together, I guess with enough clamps it might work but I'm pretty concerned by how far from the edge the back is.The guitar stays in a hard case and I keep the humidity well maintained so I'm not quite sure what happened.
I've contacted a few luthiers in my area but haven't heard back from any of them. Anyone know a good luthier in the Louisville, KY or Cincinatti area?
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03-17-2025 01:04 PM
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Seen it many times but it's almost always a humidity issue so not sure what to tell if you said it's been in a controlled environment.
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Yeah, I've seen this. Could be caused by a number of things so I won't even guess what's causing this without further inspection.
What kind of guitar is this?
There's some orange peeling on the finish. That speaks to the workmanship, but what it says might not be conclusive or even relevant.
Solutions will also differ depending how widespread this is and whether the problem is glue related, inadequate glue surface prep, bad clamping, failing glue, momentary trauma, binding failure in letting exposed glue join be compromised... or more.
Post some more detailed photos from a right angle, shine light from the inside and let's see the extent of the separation, take some photos from an endoscope from the inside so we can see the glue join from the inside, tell us some history on your care and any contact this instrument had with inertial trauma including time in the case, and we STILL might not know.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
A bird in the hand is priceless.
Tell us what your luthier says.
Sorry I can't be more helpful. I'm sure there are plenty of people here in the forum who will have much more authority with their observations.
Good luck.
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Not that I can help you but for those who might, the guitar's make and history might be good to know. The close-up photos suggest the guitar has been refinished.
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Yeah humidity has been stable between 30-40%, I run whole house humidifiers all winter and keep a close eye on them. I have a bunch of guitars and this was the only one to have issues but this is also a fairly new guitar and this was it's first full winter so I'm not necessarily ruling out humidity shifts causing the glue to fail. It's totally possible, I'm actually thinking the joint failed when we had some unseasonably warm days last week and the humidity went up to around 50% fairly quickly.
Is it a big deal getting the back realigned with the sides to re-glue things?
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As a luthier, I'd tell you I need time to assess the situation but it might be very easy.
Originally Posted by olejason
As an repair tech when I worked for Guitar Center, they would have told me squirt some glue in there, send you on your way and charge $125 because you got the premium set-up as part of the deal.
What's the deal with this guitar?
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I'm not a luthier just a retired construction engineer so I have no clue but!
Could there have been poor alignment during manufacture and gluing, such that there was over stressing to line up the gluing surfaces and the glue has now just given up under the stress?
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Assuming the component parts were all the right dimensions and somewhere between 6 and 8% moisture content when it was made, I’m with Wintermoon. That most probably resulted from shrinkage of the back due to dehydration. Rims are much more resistant to this because of their shape and thickness, so the back shrinks more and pulls away from the rim and / or the binding.
Keeping the guitar in a tightly sealed case will not protect it well despite being in a humidified storage area unless there’s also a source of humidity inside the case. This is one time when a poorly sealing case is an asset, because it lets more humidified air in. If you have a room that’s consistently between 40 & 50% RH, leave your guitar(s) in it on secure hangers or stands. But if the RH is under 40, I’d keep them in good cases with a humidity pack or two inside.
I’m surprised the binding stayed on the back. It’s usually loose by the time there’s that much separation. Unless there’s another cause here (which I doubt), the only sound approach is to rehumidify it slowly over weeks so that the back re-expands to its original size. Then it has to be reglued. But, as always, proper diagnosis requires knowledgeable inspection.
As a rough guide, this amount of dehydration virtually always causes fret sprout too unless the frets are contained by fingerboard binding. If they are, this eventually causes bulging, loosening, and / or vertical cracks in the binding over the fret ends. If you can feel the fret ends or see these binding issues along the fingerboard, dehydration is almost certainly the problem.
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What is the guitar?
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I'm with never's "That most probably resulted from shrinkage of the back due to dehydration. Rims are much more resistant to this because of their shape and thickness, so the back shrinks more and pulls away from the rim and / or the binding."
i was at the detroit guitar many years ago and really wanted a chicago dealers '36 gibs archie i was looking at. didn't pull the trigger. called him 2 days later and drove to chicago to get it. doh, hesitation blues syndrome. prob was the cold november ride back to chicago in a trailer full of cases and it got really dry and the rim popped, just like in the OPs pix. so i got it, now damaged, but with a good discount.
the fix was to strip the body hardware, carefully rehumidify the body over time in a bag (keep monitoring it) to get the back as full as could now be, which wasn't the original dimension. didn't have the fret swell issue.
at this point the option was to glue it up as it now sat, which would have left too much of an rim edge exposed over about 7"- 8" arc.
what they ended up doing at elderly was slicing a bit more of the back plate free of the rim and end block so they could end up "redistributing" the exposed rim edge over a wider area such that the exposed "edge" was now much narrower and less noticeable. could still catch it with a finger nail but nothing like the full thickness of the rim.
so there are a few options. if its not too dried out, maybe it will swell back to nearly original shape. good luck. b
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+1 Please. Again. What is the guitar? More photos please. Originally Posted by Hammertone
I've seen finishes like this on low end Chinese factory guitars. Some of them didn't even have kerfing on the ribs.
Honestly. If you want any informed or useful commentary on how you might proceed, this is nowhere near enough information.
But let the speculations fly. It's amusing if nothing else.
IS there even kerfing on the ribs inside the guitar? Would that be too much to ask for a photo of that at least?
Or not.
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Thanks for the comments everyone. It's going back to the builder in Japan, from talking with him I get the impression they've had some issues with this run of guitars from last year. He quickly offered to pay for shipping and get it back in working order. It's a Stringphonic L-5 clone w/ a CC pickup.
Lots of comments on the finish quality, it's just a really light satin nitro finish. Very common on Japanese guitars from King Snake, Stringphonic, etc. but I understand it's not generally something people like and it's much different from finishes commonly seen on archtops. I have no reason to believe the finish contributed to the issues here though.
Anyway, no big deal... I'll just have to use the ES-300 for gigs while it's being repaired
I just use this guitar on gigs where I don't want to take the Gibson given it's age. I'll post an update when I get it back.
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That’s a really cool guitar! If they’ve had similar problems with several made in the same time period, it suggests that the wood they used was not adequately dried before it was cut. This would cause excessive shrinkage as it dries further after assembly. If I’m correct, it would have happened anyway despite keeping the guitar in adequate humidity.
When we built our house, a beautiful black walnut tree had to be taken down among several lesser ones to create space on the lot. I had it cut into boards so I could turn it into a wall unit in the house. Before taking the boards down to their intended final dimensions, I had to have them cut too thick and let them stand in my garage to dry for 2 years, separated by furring strips, to avoid further shrinkage after I built the furniture.
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