-
I have an Ibanez AF-75 archtop f-hole jazz guitar that my wife gave me ~20 years ago, and it is a *surprisingly* nice instrument: super comfortable, great feeling neck, plays like butter.
The sound, however, is just a bit "meh"
I've got it strung up with D'Addario 12-52 flatwounds, and I'm playing it through a Polytone MiniBrute III combo amp; were this a classic Gibson archtop from their heyday, that'd be the perfect recipe for my timbral goals. So I'm thinking the electronics in this Ibanez are the weak link. If I had to characterize it, the sound just doesn't "pop" as much as it does in these examples; it's a little 2-dimensional, lifeless.
For reference, I'm looking for that archetypal neck-pickup humbucker "jazz guitar sound", e.g., Wes Montgomery (here playing a Gibson L-5)
or Pat Martino (here playing a Sam Koontz)
or Joe Pass (not sure what that guitar is; a D'Angelico or a D'Aquisto perhaps?)
or - sometimes - Steve Howe (here playing a Gibson ES-175D)
So... what currently available standard-sized humbucking pickup would you recommend for achieving those tonal goals?
Thanks
-
02-19-2025 09:56 PM
-
Maybe, maybe not. How a guitar is made and the woods it's made of are a big part of how it sounds, even the electric sound.
Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
FWIW, a lot of Wes's recordings were done with single coil pickups (e.g., a 175 he borrowed from Kenny Burrell, his first L5CES, which had P90s). Especially in his case, the sound comes from the way he plays much more than from the gear. Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
All the pictures I've seen of that guitar (which is my favorite sound of his) show a single coil DeArmond pickup, not a humbucker, though he did play a bunch of different humbucker guitars. Again, it's how he plays it, not the gear. He was known for stuffing his guitar with cloth to deaden the sound and add to its percussive attack. Also, extremely heavy strings. Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
That's a D'Aquisto. I don't know what pickup it had. Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
Any of the pickups modelled after an early Gibson humbucker will sound similar, though there's quite a bit of variation in how 175's sound due to the specifics of how they were made (which varied over the years). Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
Pretty much any PAF-style humbucker will sound similar to early Gibson humbuckers, all else equal. Some, examples of that are Gibson Classic 57, Ibanez Super 58, Duncan Seth Lover, Stew Mac Parson Street, various Lollars, Dimarzios, Fralins. There are a zillion more, but these are widely used and easy to find. FWIW, I put the Stew Macs in my D'Angelico semi-hollow (in place of some Kent Armstrongs that were somewhat louder and brighter). I 'm very happy with the swap. The difference is not earthshakingly dramatic, but it's noticeable, and to my tastes an improvement. Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
Last edited by John A.; 02-20-2025 at 02:45 PM.
-
In other words, any tone is dependent upon your fingers.
-
Wes playing with his thumb and not a pick is definitely a huge part of his tone. As far as a pickup swap I’d look at a Gibson ‘57 Classic first. I put one in an Ibanez 2355 and got the desired results. A musician I worked with a lot when that was my primary guitar heard me trying out a Gibson L4 CES and told me it sounded just like the guitar I already had.
-
Just in case you haven't already tried these ideas.
1. Raise the pickup, or raise just the pole pieces. High pole pieces sense treble frequencies a little better.
2. I don't know if Wes used flats (somebody will chime in I'd bet), but I know that I don't -- because they sound lifeless to me. So, a change of string might help. Of course, lots of players sound great with flats and recommend them. But, that's my take on it. And, trying it is cheaper than replacing the pickup.
3. Even if you stay with flats, maybe there's an argument to try a different brand or type.
4. Swap tests. Different guitar into that amp. Different amp for the guitar. Make sure which one has the sound you don't like. Polytones are the grail for some, but the ones I've played through always sounded dull to me.
5. This next one is really over my head. It's to change the cap value in the tone control and/or add a treble bleed cap. I have read, on this forum, that can make a difference.
6. And, after all that fails, I have a 57 Classic, Gibson product in my L5S. Sounds mellower than the Super Humbucker I removed.
-
Put and 57 Classic Pickup on the guitar. Then you are through doing anything more than finding sound with the hands. Kenny Burrell sounded a little different when he was using his big D'angelico NY, than when he used a Gibson Super 400ces, but in the end there was no doubt it was Kenny Burrel. The sound was in his hands and soul.
-
Another vote for the 57 Classic. I tried a SD Seth Lover first and replaced it with a 57 Classic. I've put a 57 in the neck of three other jazz guitars since (both laminate and carved) and have been really happy with it each time.
-
That Yes track took me right back! Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
-
The Guild pickup is the pickup that Jimmy D'Aquisto liked and included on his built-in pickup guitars. But results vary according to the player, setup, strings, picks, amp, touch, and even the room.
Whether you think this pickup is a Wes sound is up to you. But it's the pickup Jim Hall had on his Jimmy D.
Just to keep your options open.
-
All the aforementioned comments are indeed true; but you can't squeeze blood out of a rock, a better pickup replacement for an AF75 will certainly help, but will never make it sound like an L5 etc.. You may have a tone on your head you might want to emulate (we all do) and changing the pickup might get you closer. (or not) The AF75 doesn't sound bad at all for a $500 guitar, if the pickup replacement doesn't give you desired results, you can always do what a lot of people do. Further shape your tone using your amp settings, and maybe with a pedal like Empress ParaEQ, which can taylor your mids, lows, and other frequencies closer the tone you have in your head, it works! A good PAF low wound pickup in the neck should be good, and always remember, expensive doesn't always mean "better" or "best".
Cheers,
Arnie...Last edited by arnie65; 02-20-2025 at 09:01 PM.
-
Hey RP, can you elaborate on "what is a Gibson Super Humbucker"? When my guitar teacher saw my '81 L5 CES, he said it had "Super Humbuckers", Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I could never find much info on "Super Humbuckers" outside of the "Dirty Fingers" p/ups. I didn't like the sound of whatever I had, so I swapped them for Seth Lovers and that improved the tone quite a bit (I didn't change my fingers ! ). Best I could do was determine, with some investigation, that what he thought were Super h/bers, were actually the Shaw h/bers that came in the 80's Gibsons. Are these considered the S. h/bers?? Thanks
-
I'm happy to be one of those guys who can rarely if ever tell the difference between different PAF flavors, but the Stew Mac Parsons Street pickups have sounded very nice to me the two times I got a chance to play something with them installed. Fralins as well, though they are a bit more pricey.
-
Literally any PAF type will be just fine
-
Happy to share what little I know. I had an 84 Gibson L5S. That's the solid body guitar with the L5 bling. It came with "superhumbuckers". There was some harshness in the sound, which, for some reason, I thought was because of the pickup. Frankly, I won't swear that I was right about that. But, I replaced it with a 57 classic made by Gibson and I was a little happier. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
It seems possible, in retrospect, that the problem was that the pickup is not under the 24th fret node on that guitar. The pointy end of the fingerboard is in the way. Or, that it has so much maple, or whatever.
I found this opinion on the Internet. FWIW. I have no idea if it's correct.
The Super humbuckers have higher highs and more bass compared to the Classic ’57 which has a more pronounced midrange. The Super Humbuckers have a more scooped, wider sound in all pickup positions.
-
The SD 59 is my jam. It will absolutely work for those sounds you want. Has some nice top end pop to it like Wes, but can be fat and mellow too if you roll the tone back like Pat.
-
I can say, with the experience of having changed many pickups, and having friends, luthier included.....that NO - they do not all sound the same. Originally Posted by RyanM
They may all be "fine" but why change one PAF for another if you are satisfied with "whatever". (Hence the reason for the OP to post this, and everyone else tuning in).
A player has to investigate what the possibilities are with what they have, ie, try everything mutable first.
But if you have an ear for it, and really care about the sound you are putting out, there are avenues to achieving that which you want.
-
So, based on that, not only did I not have Super H/bers, but, my teacher may have been misinformed. Had he listened to the guitar itself, he may have assessed differently. ??????? Thanks
-
+1 for the Duncan 59 Originally Posted by Al Haig
I also like the Gibson 57 Classic and the Kent Armstrong handmade PAF
-
My WesMo has a '57 Classic, which came stock. I'm very happy with it. I had/have '57s in one of my Les Pauls and in my 355 and I like them a lot.
-
+1 for the Classic 57.
-
Well at least that does not sound like Shaws. I have an ES-175 from 1984 and in it the Shaws are perfect jazz pickups, maybe their output is in the lower side but they are never harsh, boomy or dull. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Hmm… it is my first guitar that I have kept stock! Usually I change something, at least magnets in the pickups. (Or maybe I finally am growing adult.)
-
57 classic is great. it's a little bolder, meatier, more midrangey than i associate with wes but it's great. yes i get the irony that it's literally the model in the gibson wesmo.
-
Great info guys. I am wondering if putting a Classic 57 into the Bridge position of my new Gibson 335 would help eliminate the thin E string tone. It would be a lot of work, but is it worth it? I'm not going to change picks, strings or hook up an EQ pedal! Everything else in my "chain" is working for me, and I want simplicity.
But the newer Gibson pickups (on 2 guitars) share this characteristic in the bridge position. It's not obvious when unplugged, and it doesn't happen on the neck pickups. My E strings are either .010 or .011 and there's no difference in the thin tone.
The pickups in question are T-Tops.
-
I don't know, but I do know that I don't have that issue with my 355 and I use 10s on it. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
-
Hmm… sounds a bit like question of adjustment, not the pickup. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
Is the screw in line with the string? Sometimes factory made guitars have pickups in a bit wrong place. Have You tried to rise the bass side of the pickup? Rise the screw under the string? Check these first. T-tops should be nice pickups!
…hmm…now I started to think about the structure of the T-top humbuckers. They have short alnico 5 magnet. Could the magnet of that bridge pu be too much in the treble side?
It is easy to check. I suppose there is plenty of magnet swap tutorials in YouTube.
Reply With Quote
Recommandations for Hollowbodies for $600 and under?
Today, 05:20 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos