Barney Kessel Models - Tonal difference early 60s / later 60s?

[gitman]

To all those who have sampled both versions : is there a TONAL difference between the early version with the long neck-bloc and the later models that have the short bloc/ long neck ? I'm aware that
the custom model had a maple neck, the standard had a mahogany neck, some had pressed solid spruce tops, later versions had maple plywood tops and backs - all these factors do come into play
but for me right now the issue of the neck construction is most interesting as I feel that it might have quite a noticeable effect on the feel and tone of the guitar. Please let me know what your experiences were !

[wintermoon]

This is pretty much the definitive Kessel research article, maybe some of the answers to your questions can be answered...

The Gibson Barney Kessel Pages

[ThatRhythmMan]

That’s a tough one. The early ones also had PAF or early patent number pickups while the later ones have t-tops.


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[Hammertone]

... some had pressed solid spruce tops, later versions had maple plywood tops and backs ...

Until someone posts a clear photo showing a solid pressed spruce top on a Kessel, I will consider this a myth. All of the spruce tops on the Kessels I have handled are laminated.

Same goes for Guild X-500 models, for that matter.

[arnie65]

Funny thing, I've never seen a video of Barney playing his own model, although there are photo's of him with the guitar, they seem more like promotional photos, not photos of him gigging with it.




Arnie...

[wintermoon]

Funny thing, I've never seen a video of Barney playing his own model, although there are photo's of him with the guitar, they seem more like promotional photos, not photos of him gigging with it.




Arnie...

He didn't like it and only used it for a record cover photo. Gibson had a habit of deviating from artists specs on their signature models and was the beginning of a long rift w the company that saw him cover the Gibson logo on his ES-350s
Here's a pic of him showing it to some of his fellow Wrecking Crew guitarists in the studio

[ThatRhythmMan]

At about 14:30 in this video he shows one and talks about it, but that’s the closest I’ve ever seen.

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[gitman]

It's really surprising that even though these guitars have steadily risen in value over the past 10 years or so there is not a great deal of objective info to be found out there, maybe a couple of video clips in which the SOUND is not blurred, distorted, badly recorded.... guys showing them mostly brag about the "vintage-ness", the weight that Barney's name carries, the relative rarity - never about the tonal characteristics in comparison with other Gibson models of that era.
We know the facts, i.e. how it's built, what changes occurred over the years and so on but when compared to models like the ES175, L5, ES150, ES350 and the other usual suspects the BK is
pretty much under-exposed. In a blind test I am sure that most players would not be able to discern/differenciate between a BK model and say a Tal Farlow and when played un-amplified it would become even harder for most. So it's the LOOKS that put people off - as if they listen with their eyes ....

I'll get in touch with our friend Dutch Bopper - seems like he is the only other source for some objective info, un-biased also since he is not a dealer/collector.

[daveg]

Andy Reiss:

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

DG

[John A.]

It's really surprising that even though these guitars have steadily risen in value over the past 10 years or so there is not a great deal of objective info to be found out there, maybe a couple of video clips in which the SOUND is not blurred, distorted, badly recorded.... guys showing them mostly brag about the "vintage-ness", the weight that Barney's name carries, the relative rarity - never about the tonal characteristics in comparison with other Gibson models of that era.
We know the facts, i.e. how it's built, what changes occurred over the years and so on but when compared to models like the ES175, L5, ES150, ES350 and the other usual suspects the BK is
pretty much under-exposed. In a blind test I am sure that most players would not be able to discern/differenciate between a BK model and say a Tal Farlow and when played un-amplified it would become even harder for most. So it's the LOOKS that put people off - as if they listen with their eyes ....

I'll get in touch with our friend Dutch Bopper - seems like he is the only other source for some objective info, un-biased also since he is not a dealer/collector.

Search here for posts by Jack Zucker about BK's. He has had several and posted about just the sorts of things you're asking many times. For example:
1965 Gibson Barney Kessel (Maple Top)

[sgosnell]

Ed Cherry played one last night on Frank Vignola's Guitar Night stream. It sounded very good to me, I liked it better than Frank's Gibson with the McCarty pickups. But it's no surprise to me that Ed sounded good, whatever he was playing.

That's just a stock photo of Ed, he didn't use the guitar shown in the promo.

[sgcim]

My early 60s BK Custom was a very versatile guitar. I was ablre to use it playing for Pop/Rock acts like Sister Sledge, Melba Moore, The musical "Hair, TSOP, etc.. and also for jazz.

[gitman]

Until someone posts a clear photo showing a solid pressed spruce top on a Kessel, I will consider this a myth. All of the spruce tops on the Kessels I have handled are laminated.

Same goes for Guild X-500 models, for that matter.

This is a 1968 BK Standard : solid top, plywood back, one-piece mahogany neck. I cannot discern whether it is a carved or pressed spruce, there are no tell-tale signs ...

[sgcim]

This is a 1968 BK Standard : solid top, plywood back, one-piece mahogany neck. I cannot discern whether it is a carved or pressed spruce, there are no tell-tale signs ...

OMG! That looks like an autopsy!

[Cunamara]

I have only ever heard one of these guitars in person, so I don't think I have much relevant to offer. I would just say that it was one of the best sounding jazz guitars I have ever heard. I was at work at a nursing homes and there was a guy playing solo jazz for the residents. From all the way down the hall, I thought that is a great tone. So I went and peeked in and he was playing a BK. Could've knocked me over because they're just not very common instruments. It sounded fantastic- smooth, fat, warm, articulate; all the adjectives you want to apply to great sounding jazz guitars.